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Fonts embedded in FileMaker

Idea created by Polarpro on Jul 28, 2016

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SUGGESTION: It would be very useful if the fonts that are used in a FileMaker solution could be embedded and deployed together with this FileMaker solution, as one package.

WHY: If you wish to use a specific font in your FileMaker solution you need to make sure that it is installed on your computer. This means that the users who want to work with your FileMaker solution need to be aware of the font problem and install this certain font. If somebody does not install the font (because he didn't know or doesn't know how to do this) in the worst case text is cut off (as the user's replacement font has wider characters e.g.)

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23 Comments

MartinBridges Jul 28, 2016 1:17 AM
I agree. That's why every solution I make is always based upon 'arial'. Couldn't get more common than that. Even then there is always a discrepancy between Macs and PCs. Not just width of characters but also line spacing.
I did a checkbox field once with six vertical values that fitted nicely above a tab panel. The client was constantly telling me that one value was missing. They were using a PC and the last value was hidden behind the tab panel.

Martin
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johnbuckingham Jul 28, 2016 1:30 AM
Hi Michael

I agree that some form of font management would be a very useful adjunct; especially for situations where barcode fonts or special symbols are required. In my solutions, I carry font files in a container field in a 'Variables' table which I can download to their desktop so I always have them available at the user's machine ready to install.

The piece of the jigsaw I would like to see added, if embedding isn't immediately possible, would be a function (Mac & Win) to determine which fonts are currently installed - this would mean that I would at least be able to code script steps to disable functionality in the event that a particular font was absent. Also, such a function would allow improved control where a file is opened in FMGo, where I understand font management is much more complex than on desk/lap top machines...

Good call!
JB
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walt105 Jul 28, 2016 5:10 AM
I am surprised that currently you can't embed a font. Good to know because I was planning to use a font I created myself. If FM is serious about creating the best possible looking database (no I won't use the word 'solution', that is pure indoctrination used by spin doctors...) then they should have a go at adding font embedding capabilities.
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Karen Jul 28, 2016 1:19 PM
In the OS9 days you could do that with many an application. Of course, font licensing is a very real issue. I think FMI would have strike a deal with a font house to embed in the app. Microsoft force-feeds dozens, and graphic designers dutifully pluck out the cruft from their already overstuffed font menu.

I'm now picturing putting the (properly licensed font) in a container for download. "Hey user! Does this look like this? No? Click here and install the downloaded font."
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serval Jul 28, 2016 2:00 PM
A list of all fonts that are common to all versions of Windows and Mac operating systems:
http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
There are also links there to pictures of what those fonts look like on both platforms.

Another author's listing:
http://www.openwebit.com/c/common-web-fonts-for-mac-and-windows/comment-page-1/

This link has tips on how to use styled fonts (regular, bold, italic, and bold italic) that work on both platforms:
http://www.macworld.com/article/1144660/business/xplatype.html
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stevegleason Sep 16, 2016 7:56 AM
I would prefer that FileMaker embrace the new OpenType Variable font spec.
https://medium.com/@tiro/https-medium-com-tiro-introducing-opentype-variable-fonts-12ba6cd2369#.xdas7iqoj

Adding the ability to embed fonts (a la TypeKit) could provide a more uniform user experience across FileMaker Pro, FileMaker Go and WebDirect. And, as with TypeKit, the licensing cost (for the fonts) is the responsibility of the developer. There would be a cost to including the technology. But as Apple is part of the consortium, I would hope that wouldn't be an insurmountable obstacle.

The OpenType variable font spec could also open up possibilities for responsive design and conditional formatting that could be state-specific.

This one is big. If we want our solutions to look "app-like", we shouldn't be limited to lowest common denominator system fonts.
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intex Sep 17, 2016 12:49 AM
would fit very much to this:

Full integration of Font Awesome - Vectorial icon font with more than 600 icons at once
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richardsrussell May 5, 2017 7:55 AM
I've upvoted this, because I think you've correctly identified a problem. I'm not so sure you've correctly identified the best solution to it, tho, but I agree that it deserves some deeper attention.

I share the frustration expressed by a couple of previous commenters that text that fits perfectly well into the available space on my Macintosh-based layouts gets truncated when the files are deployed on a Windows machine, with its slightly less efficient font rendering. Yes, I can work around it, but sometimes it takes a couple of forth-and-backs, and I'd rather not have to.

FWIW, this has to be a problem that occurs in lots of programs other than FileMaker. Ideally, there'd be some kind of summit meeting where Satya, Tim, and whoever speaks for Unix would get together and come up with a universal standard. Not holding my breath, tho.
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monkeybreadsoftware Sep 27, 2017 5:48 AM
Technically you can embed font in macOS application. So you could ship to clients a special version of FMP with fonts included. Or you wrap FMP installer and put the fonts into the app itself after installing with a second installer.
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Karen @ monkeybreadsoftware on Sep 27, 2017 6:01 AM
I suggested that to our local FMI engineer a while back. He scolded me, but with a grin!
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bigtom Dec 17, 2017 6:14 PM
I have run into situations where a selected font while developing in FMP on Mac is not an available font in iOS or Windows.

This led to having to change the core font of the solution. I had an expectation that a font available in FMP would be available across all platforms but it is certainly not true.

I am not sure if this is the answer, but I think allowing the embed of a font in the FMP file keeps FMI out of the font licensing situation and allows developers to use fonts they have created or licensed without troubles.

I see this as a a feature that should be offered only with FMPA, like custom menus or custom functions. You need FMPA to embed the font, but once it is in it can be used across all clients.

Adding optional Font packages for FMPA would be a great value add for the FMI developers that created them.
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jfletch @ Karen on Dec 17, 2017 7:13 PM
Perhaps with open source fonts only. There are font houses that take the use of their IP very seriously. It would be hard to convince them that just because one user licensed a font for individual or company use that they should then let them share it far and wide in a distributed solution.

The solution might be to limit the feature to fonts that had some kind of more flexible license, such as Google fonts. I have no idea how they might enforce licensing rules within the app, though, so I certainly understand why FMI engineers might be a little trepidatious.
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jfletch @ walt105 on Dec 17, 2017 7:19 PM
walt105 wrote:

database (no I won't use the word 'solution', that is pure indoctrination used by spin doctors...)
mySQL is a database. xBase variants were databases. SQLServer is a database. Even noSQL is a kind of database. You have to have a bunch of other tools and code to turn such into a "solution." A project done in FileMaker can solve the whole problem. Note "solution" is the noun for the verb "solve." Nothing "spin" about it.
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bigtom Dec 17, 2017 7:38 PM
fletch This is why it might really best to allow embedding of fonts in the file and leaving the licensing issues to the developer. It is essentially the same legal situation now. If you need a font you, as a developer, need to deal with the licensing and install the font on the client machines (if possible).
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bpanhuyzen Mar 27, 2018 8:17 AM
I look at the fonts and the way they demo them over at My Fonts and salivate at the possibilities. Font variability is the last design frontier for FileMaker, the only thing keeping solutions from being truly breathtaking. I know if I could hand a layout to one of my graphic designer friends and liberate them to use any font that they'd deliver something astonishing, something that would break all the tired-and-true that FileMaker has become because we have been forced to use the same ~four fonts since forever.

We live in a world of intense design variability, and that includes the diversity of typefaces we see everywhere, every day. When that is missing, when every FileMaker database looks essentially the same, we are suspicious – we feel, maybe unconsciously, that a limitation has been imposed. That FileMaker is limited.

How font options are handled is another question – embedded in the solution, Google webfonts, whatever. What's important is that it must allow access to many fonts – everything from Garamond to Trajan to the most obscure, with all major foundries represented.

Just as permissions and licensing for icons and graphics in a solution are the responsibility of the developer, so should it be with fonts.

It might sound like hyperbole (I'm a former typesetter), but FileMaker needs to throw off the font restriction before the platform can truly flourish.

Let's keep discussing this, make it happen!
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bigtom @ bpanhuyzen on Mar 27, 2018 11:09 AM
This is still a good idea.
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davidsan @ richardsrussell on Mar 29, 2018 3:46 AM
Richard wrote:

I've upvoted this, because I think you've correctly identified a problem. I'm not so sure you've correctly identified the best solution to it, tho, but I agree that it deserves some deeper attention.

I share the frustration expressed by a couple of previous commenters that text that fits perfectly well into the available space on my Macintosh-based layouts gets truncated when the files are deployed on a Windows machine, with its slightly less efficient font rendering. Yes, I can work around it, but sometimes it takes a couple of forth-and-backs, and I'd rather not have to.

FWIW, this has to be a problem that occurs in lots of programs other than FileMaker. Ideally, there'd be some kind of summit meeting where Satya, Tim, and whoever speaks for Unix would get together and come up with a universal standard. Not holding my breath, tho.

Even though, it is technically possible to have the same Font rasterisation on screen, it is a very complex issue and it is present in all browsers. Even if you could embed your own fonts into a FM Solution (which is what is being asked here), there is no warranty that will look fine in Mac and Windows at the same time.

Years ago, Apple did it when provided Safari for Windows, however, people that use Windows did not like how fonts looked since the algorithms for rasterisation are different.

From that era, this link: What's Wrong With Apple's Font Rendering?

As far as I know, the same issue exists in Word for Mac and Windows.
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davidsan @ jfletch on Mar 29, 2018 3:44 AM
jfletch wrote:

walt105 wrote:

database (no I won't use the word 'solution', that is pure indoctrination used by spin doctors...)
mySQL is a database. xBase variants were databases. SQLServer is a database. Even noSQL is a kind of database. You have to have a bunch of other tools and code to turn such into a "solution." A project done in FileMaker can solve the whole problem. Note "solution" is the noun for the verb "solve." Nothing "spin" about it.
Exactly! This is a terrible misconception that people have, that FileMaker is just a database, the way MySQL, PostgreSQL are.

FileMaker is a platform, and inside the platform there is an "engine" (Called Draco) and inside Draco there is a "database engine" similar in functionality to MySQL, PostgreSQL, and so on, although not in concept. The term "FileMaker Solution" was coined to wrap the added value of the platform that includes report engine, fast prototyping, database, web, app generation, etc. When developing a system that is based in MySQL, for example, you also need to provide all of that from different vendors.
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beverly Mar 29, 2018 4:05 AM
NOPE! it needs a CSS-like approach where the font can be "loaded" at runtime. This might have a variety of fonts should one not work well on a particular platform. Of course there is the need to be "connected to the outside world" for this, but these are the ideas and we must discuss all possibilities, right?
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bigtom @ beverly on Mar 29, 2018 4:56 AM
Yes. Option for fonts and themes as outside downloadable files.

This would be great for UI and faster mobile WAN experience.
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proofgroup Jul 13, 2018 11:40 AM
Modern typography and web-font support is vital. Google Fonts has an Apache 2 license. If we could bring our own fonts/license to the solution as developers--FMI may not need to worry about picking winners or losers. I am not a lawyer, obviously; but this seems like an easy way to advance the platform

update - 2018-06-07: Still need fonts.
update - 2018-07-13: Still need modern fonts (typekit, google, etc.).
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krheinlander Nov 10, 2018 9:45 AM
Regardless of these lists of fonts typefaces that are common on both Mac and Windows, there is no guarantee that ANY font typeface will exist on both platforms. It is all dependent on what they have installed on their machine after the OS has been installed that included fonts typefaces in the installation. A base version of Win10 and a base version of OS X / MacOS has zero typefaces common to both. Only when you install something like Microsoft Office, which carries its' own typefaces into the OS, does there start to be typeface commonality between platforms, and that cannot be guaranteed to have happened.

And even then, the gross inaccuracies of Windows typeface rendering engine makes it so typefaces that are installed on both platforms will not use the same screen spacing - the typeface metrics fidelity is only maintained on Macs - Windows is incapable of accurate rendering, based on their current approach.

We still need a way to ensure that any given typeface can get installed on the client platform, from within a solution installation, not reliant on installations outside of FM. Many IT departments are hesitant to go outside their standard's to install something like a typeface. MS gets around this - at least in Office - by installing fonts when Office is installed. Ariel is a prime example of a typeface that comes with MS Office installations.

If FM carried a serif and a san serif typeface family with the installation, developers could be assured that the typeface was 1) available to their solutions and 2) test to make sure that all spacing to support the Windows rendering deficiencies was resolved prior to shipping the solution to Windows-based clients.

FWIIW: a FONT is a TYPEFACE at a given point size, weight, orientation, etc. Arial is a typeface; Arial bold, 10pt, italic, is a font.
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Jason Wood Jan 6, 2019 8:52 PM
While we're at it lets get type opacity and letter spacing control too!
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Fonts embedded in FileMaker

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