1 2 3 Previous Next 30 Replies Latest reply on Jun 23, 2010 9:19 AM by Steve Wright

    FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!

    Contour

      Title

      FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!

      Post

       

      FM11 is a disaster for developers -- and you have a huge Public Relations problem brewing.  Word is starting to get out to our customers about it being useless on PCs.

       

      Has any Sr. Software Analyst looked at this tread?:  Runtime Errors

      There are already 55 posts.  Developers are having to fish in the dark for a solution to a problem THAT FMI CAUSED!

       

      Or how about this one?:  Portal Flickering
      Between this Flashing Portals problem and the runtime errors, FM 11 is useless to true application developers.

      FMI is really looking weak here -- as if there's a lack of real understanding of the Windows runtime environment.  Say it isn't so.  Give us answers.  Explain what technical solutions are forthcoming.

      FM 11 has a lot of promise to be a worthwhile release out on the track -- but right now, it's broken down in the pits.



      Here’s just a sampling of the posts so far:

      We currently have 20 Runtime titles out in the market, this (FM11) really has us rethinking the future of FM as our weapon of choice. -- Rudy Cat

      If however something isn't done soon, I will instead revert my systems to version 10.3 removing any benefits gained in version 11. -- boyk

      For all people using runtimes, this is catastrophic, they just can't use it.  --  fabricker

      I released a beta version of my latest solution which requires FM 11 this week to around 30 companies and every single one of them stated they would not use it with this problem in place. -- SWS

      Hundreds, if not thousands, of people are going to fall right into this hole that they've created. -- Contour













        • 1. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
          RudyCat

          I just saw your post with a quote from us.

           

          An update for you and the members here...

           

          We had a meeting this morning and have decided that Filemaker will no longer be used to produce our software titles (we currently produce 21 educational titles via Filmaker in Runtime).

           

          This will stall our production for a little while, but we always have a backup plan in place in the event any company we use has an issue such as Filemaker has produced with version 11.

           

          I know of two other businesses that we contract with that are giving Filemaker the boot as well.

           

          The thing that ticks us off the most is we purchased 5 copies of FMA 11 and we can't use a single copy. We are going to donate them to a local school.

           

          Mike Kroner

          Primary Lead Dev Team II

          S1S

          • 2. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
            Steve Wright

            The thing is... it would not take much for them to sort it out.... and if they released a patch this week or next week then Im sure there would be a lot of happier people.  Me included...

             

            If I released my solution with issues such as these, I would almost guarantee (and tell my clients) that an update would be out to fix the issues with an apology of course...  After all, it should not have been released period.  Problems such as those should have been picked up during testing.. it took me 2 minutes to find the portal flicker about 4 weeks prior to release, at which point I sent a video across to FMI with an explanation of my findings.

             

            I will give them their due... they have sorted 95% of flicker out, which is a MAJOR advancement for FM, but in the current state, it is all meaningless.   

             

            I have always listened to my clients when developing my solution, which I think has helped make fairly successful.

            FMI could do with following the same / similar guidelines..  Take <<$$variable>>  really... come on who would want to show that on a layout if the var is empty... that simply illustrates the difference between the 'real world users' and the behind the scenes tech guys.  On FM's own techtalk, there was a thread which basically consumed the forum with mass posts on that subject alone.

             

            But I have complained far too much recently about FM Im starting to annoy myself, so I have been staying off the forums a little more just to keep my stress levels from boiling over....  :-P

             

            Im sure a v-rev is on the way, but for once they need to scrap their 3 month schedule (as howards pointed out) and like they did with Vrev 3 of FM9 I think.. release one soon ... From what I recall Vrev 3 of FM9 came out 1 month after Vrev 2

             

            Software & bugs is part and parcel these days, especially now the internet is the way it is, most companies feel it acceptable to release software and patch it later.... BUT software which is unusable well.. thats just embarrassing.  

             

             


            The thing that ticks us off the most is we purchased 5 copies of FMA 11 and we can't use a single copy. We are going to donate them to a local school.


             

            I know how you feel... We purchased 50 licences of 11 pro and cannot use a single one either... and were looking at upgrading a few hundred Pro licences... well not anymore... at least not yet.

             

            • 3. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
              Lust4Kicks

              As previously said, maybe FM is moving too fast with these upgrades, almost a half dozen in as many years!

               

              Why not slow it down a bit and release a more stable product with all the little features already integrated, etc?

               

              Quality built in, not added on

              • 4. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                Contour

                Rudy C., SWS, L4K ... thanks for weighing in on this.  These are difficult decisions to have to face and make in these difficult economic times.

                 

                It's been a week since I posted -- and approaching a month since the problems were recognized -- and still no indication that anyone in FMI is listening.

                 

                If anyone is aware of any indication otherwise, please post a response.

                 

                 

                 

                • 5. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                  JoshO.

                  FileMaker has addressed the Run-time issue back in March...I don't really like the explanation, but with 3 different versions of Windows being supported at the same time, I guess I understand why it has to be this way.

                   

                  http://filemaker.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7653/kw/runtime

                  • 6. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                    Steve Wright

                     


                    Lust 4 Kicks wrote:

                    As previously said, maybe FM is moving too fast with these upgrades, almost a half dozen in as many years!

                     

                    Why not slow it down a bit and release a more stable product with all the little features already integrated, etc?

                     

                    Quality built in, not added on


                     

                     

                    I agree with the 'stable product' part obviously, but I disagree that FMI are moving too fast.

                    FMI are moving far too slowly and need to pick up the pace to stay with the times...

                     

                    Think about it....

                    1. They did not create the charts in FM11, they licensed and integrated them.

                    2. They did not create the toolbar in FM10 / FM11 they licensed it and integrated it.

                     

                    Fair enough, why re-invent the wheel right... but surely that should free up some time / resources to fix the things you did create...and actually test them before releasing world wide.


                    • 7. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                      Contour

                       


                      jmormond wrote:

                      FileMaker has addressed the Run-time issue back in March...I don't really like the explanation

                       

                      EXPLANATION:
                      The proper method for distributing Runtime solutions (including the executable) is to use Installer software. This software must install components in the proper location in the Windows filesystem and provide an uninstall capability. See the Microsoft website for more ...


                      This is not a solution in any meaningful sense.  They had the C++ library issue solved in FM10 ... and then opted out of providing them in FM11 -- apparently without considering the impact on developers ("catastrophic", someone said).

                      The problem seems to be with the manifest files (e.g., Microsoft.VC80.MFC.manifest in FM10).  Here's a relevant statement from Microsoft:
                      "Visual C++ libraries cannot be used by C/C++ applications without a manifest binding the application to these libraries."

                      I'm not aware that anyone has cracked the code on how to do this.  FMI holds the keys to solving it across the different OS versions -- and they're not talking.

                      BTW, this thread: http://forum-en.filemaker.com/t5/Report-a-bug/FileMaker-11-Runtime-Error/td-p/56644/highlight/false is much more to the point of the problem than anything FileMaker has posted.

                      They've severly damaged FileMaker as a application development platform -- and left developers in a lurch.

                       






                      • 8. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                        JoshO.

                        I hear you.  And I don't disagree.  Have you put in a formal feature request?

                         

                        Enough voices will get their attention.  Kind of like they did with dbf import/export.  They removed it from FileMaker 10...and then put it back with 10v2.

                        • 9. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                          5104919325FTN

                          About this runtime problem,

                           

                          1)  which I consider as a major problem, because it puts the philosophy of FileMaker upside-down (yes, my bike have an upside-down fork too, but there, it's good !), which was: put it on a stick, don't install nothing, just start the application, it works.

                           

                          2)  we found out thanks ralvy, Thomas Bauer and SWS (did I forgot someone?), that it would be a question of hours to give a fix to download.

                          Well, a zip-file with ridiculous 3 small folders to put ourselves in the "Internal Runtime Libraries" folder  ... It seems, that FM11 is already looking for those missing folders ...

                          And, oh yes, we could easily copy and paste ...

                           

                          3) The report about the runtime problem was created the 3-10-2010 from boyk.

                          My customers discovered this mess the 21, I wrote to Dominique Goupil the 26 (because of point 1) and he answered  the next day, telling me, he will contact the product management.

                          So I can assume, that the product management is aware of this problem.

                           

                          Then came easter.

                           

                          And now?

                           

                          Maybe I should send a new mail, to check, if the product management is aware about the angry community?

                           

                           

                          By the way, I sent last week a few feedback to correct the (absolutely ridiculous) knowledge base about this problem.

                          Nothing was changed on it.

                           

                          I'm waiting, and I'm very ....

                           

                           

                          (And I didn't post yet about the horizontal cutted lines at the end of a page, when you print a document longer than one page -- like in FileMaker 6)

                           

                           

                          • 10. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                            JoshO.

                            Frustrating, for sure!

                             

                            This one line is interesting to me:

                             


                            Note that Windows Vista, Windows XP and Windows 7 imposes specific restrictions, requiring some runtime components—for example, Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)—be located in a location in which only an Installer can write.

                            I don't have access to Windows 7 (and haven't tried it on Vista, yet)...are their problems using FM10 runtimes on either of those windows versions?

                            • 11. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                              5104919325FTN

                               


                              Note that Windows Vista, Windows XP and Windows 7 imposes specific restrictions,
                              requiring some runtime components—for example, Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)—be located in a location in which only an Installer can write.

                              There is no problem using a FM10 runtime on any Windows, because FM10 (or a FM10 runtime)

                               

                              1) work with the previous version Visual C++ 2005, and

                               

                              2) bring its himself, in 3 Microsoft folders with their correct "manifest" file.

                              Take a look at the FM10 programm folder and his sub-folder "Internal Runtime Libraries", you will see the Microsoft folders ...

                              And subconsequently in your Runtime folder too.

                              FM 10 runtimes are autonome.

                               

                              The problem with FM11 is that it is rewritten with Visual C++ 2008.

                               

                              To run, the FM11 runtimes needs the 3 C++ 2008 folders (like FM10 the 3 C++ 2005 folders).The runtime looks for the folder!

                              The only problem ist that, there are inexistant.

                              You can help, installing a trial version of FIleMaker 11 before start the runtime (hihihi, huhuhuhu, hahaha).

                              Or install the Microsoft file for it. The one you get from the knowledge base.

                               

                              But that you can not do, is copy the folders, you could have get from somewhere, because the "manifest"-files you will not be able to create with the right hashes.

                               

                              Maybe it's only a problem of licensing between FileMaker and Microsoft "lol"

                               

                               

                              To the note above ... It's just a lie, and this, I don't find it funny ... Not Windows imposes restrictions, but a contrario FM11 imposes them.

                              Using dll files from Windows, it impose us to install the C++ 2008 SP1.

                               

                              And this is not for example but "exclusively" or "nothing else than" ...

                               

                              And you will never have to look, if you put the files installed from the package "in a location ... etc.", because the Microsoft installer knows, where to put it (well, it's a kind of native Windows software, isn't it?).and will never aksk you for it.

                               

                              Well, this note is non-sens.

                               

                              That's all folks ...

                              • 12. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                                braxton

                                I for one won't upgrade until this is solved.

                                • 13. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                                  Contour

                                   


                                  jmormond wrote:

                                  Have you put in a formal feature request? ...  Enough voices will get their attention.


                                  In my opinion, the situation is far beyond a feature request (which, BTW, I have tried before in order to get "improvements".)


                                  FileMaker 11 is broken.  It needs to be fixed ASAP.  FileMaker can do it ... but will they?

                                   

                                  It's now been 30 days -- and counting -- with no formal acknowledgement.  By not openly addressing these two huge problems, FileMaker Inc. is letting anger and resentment rise to a level that they will not easily be able to offset with the eventual technical solutions.

                                   

                                  So, apparently, enough voices have yet to be heard by FileMaker, Inc.

                                   


                                  • 14. Re: FileMaker, Inc. ... WAKE UP!
                                    Steve Wright

                                    If you are a member of tech-talk, take a look here...  http://techtalk.filemaker.com/.59bfa6b2

                                     

                                    If not, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to quote a message from the non-public area, but our voices have been heard.

                                    Of course.. only time will really tell.

                                     

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