12 Replies Latest reply on Dec 18, 2009 6:26 AM by TSGal

    FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?

    ralvy

      Title

      FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?

      Post

      I notice that FMPA 10 is supposed to require XP Service Pack 3, whereas FMPA 9 required Service Pack 2 if I'm not mistaken. I have a couple of clients with XP SP2. How important is it to ask them to upgrade to SP3 to run my FMPA v10 runtime solutions? Or is the SP3 requirement just what's necessary to run FMPA, but not its runtimes.

        • 2. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
          ralvy
             Whoa! Very interesting thread. I'm not at all impressed that Filemaker initially announced that FMPA 10 is XP SP2 certified, and then changed that to SP3 later on. Seems to me that they should then do the work to certify it for SP2 if that was what was initially announced. At least they say they have no reported problems directly related to SP2.
          • 3. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
            TSGal

            ralvy:

             

            To clear up any misunderstanding, we never announced that it was certified with XP SP2.  The first version was certified with XP SP3.  Our initial tests were performed with SP2, but during our testing cycle, SP3 was released, and all of our focus went into SP3.  Our documentation is created long before the release, and that is why the documentation shows SP2.

             

            Still, no problems have been reported with SP2.

             

            TSGal

            FileMaker, Inc. 

            • 4. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
              mrvodka
                 I dont want to open up this can of worms again, but I am going to once again restate that if your documentation states SP2, then you should have "Official" support for SP2.
              • 5. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                TSGal

                ralvy:

                 

                To clear up any further misunderstandings, there have been no reported issues related to SP2 with FileMaker Pro 10.

                 

                TSGal

                FileMaker, Inc. 

                • 6. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                  mrvodka
                    

                  So if there have been no reported issues, then why not just officially support SP2?  Sorry to say, but saying that there havent been any reported issues for a product that is not 100% stated certified for that services pack isnt going to fly with most CIOs, nor protect developers from litigation, getting fired, etc...

                   

                  Why is this such a hard concept for FMI to understand? 

                   

                  We are not asking for the world here.  If the following are true:

                   

                  1. The Documentation that comes with the install states SP2 as minimum requirements

                  2. Its too late for FMI to change this documentation

                  3. There are no issues with SP2 supposedly

                   

                  Why cant we just get an official support notice after its tested in the lab? Its your mistake.

                   

                  If from the beginning it state SP3 then I wouldnt be bringing up a big stink. However because you stated ( mistake, timeline, or whatever reason ) that it was SP2, you should take responsiblity. There are people who bought it based on the supported documents. 

                   

                  I know that I have stated this in the past but large companies almost always lag behind in OS, and versions. It not easy just to migrate hundreds ( or thousands ) of users to a newer OS or service pack. People have to use the company standard.

                  • 7. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                    TSGal

                    mr_vodka:

                     

                    It is not a "hard concept for FMI to understand".  Yes, it is our mistake.  No, the documentation is not going to be changed.  No, we are not going to revisit testing FileMaker Pro 10 with Windows XP SP2.

                     

                    In your point number 3, you can drop off the word "supposedly".  That is, at this time, there have been no issues reported related to Windows XP SP2.  Period.

                     

                    I totally understand your reasonings, but I am simply the messenger.  At this point, I would suggest sending a letter to our president with your comments.

                     

                    TSGal

                    FileMaker, Inc. 

                    • 8. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                      mrvodka
                        

                      TSGal.

                       

                      As stated in the past, I know you are only the messenger and I truely do empathize with you. I also know that there is only so much that you personally can do. I have never blasted you personally for any of FM issues and as a matter of fact on numerous occassions have stood up for you. However, considering that many people over at FMI do read these forums as you have previously stated, I feel strongly about this matter and want people to know about this. What I meant by questioning "why its a hard concept to understand" is that I feel that often FMI does not think about the developer or protecting the developer.

                       

                      If I tell someone go ahead and screw in the screw that is meant for a phillips head with a flat head screw driver because "we never had an issue with it" and then one day by chance it strips the screw for someone who owns that fault?

                       

                      Do you see why I have an issue with this? The manufacturer said use a phillips head officially. However, nobody had reported any issues when they were using a flat head... Then I go decide to use the flathead based off of that and strip the screw... My boss then asks me why I used a flat head when the manufacturer officially only said Phillips... The onus comes onto us; the ones that used the flat head based on "no issues".

                       

                      I am not trying to be difficult or just being a complainer, but as my previous post that you are aware of stated here:

                       

                      http://fm.lithium.com/fm/board/message?board.id=fdbk2&message.id=1180

                       

                       

                      This is one of the big problems that many developers have with the direction of FMI. We feel ignored and thus become disconnected.

                       

                      The previous post that you just posted adds to it. Perhaps you may not have meant it when you wrote it, but the message comes off as you saying, "just deal with it because its not going to change and if you have issues, just write Dominique". Thats not really a good way to mend the gap.

                       

                      I know that you feel like you are beating a dead horse here with me but I wouldnt keep pushing it if I didnt feel that it wasnt that big of a deal.

                       

                      Whether FMI recognizes or not, there definitely is a disconnect and it is evident by the number of Kudos given to my earlier post pleaing FMI to reconsider its business strategy. It is the highest Kudoed post on these forums. What does that display? I am not alone here.

                       

                      • 9. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                        StellaLuna
                          

                        TSGal wrote:

                        No, we are not going to revisit testing FileMaker Pro 10 with Windows XP SP2.  In your point number 3, you can drop off the word "supposedly".  That is, at this time, there have been no issues reported related to Windows XP SP2.  Period.


                        You are being rude and dismissive to this person - telling them to write a letter to the president if they don't like it.  No wonder we all think you couldn't give a rip about our needs.  If we can drop off the word "supposedly" and if there are no issues with SP2 at this time PERIOD then you should certifiy it with SP2 to protect your customers.  You don't even say why you won't certify SP2 - you say you simply won't and 'you developers can take it or leave it - so THERE' and that attitude comes across quite clearly.  I recall reading that you didn't know about several bugs in your own bug database; I recall reading that some bugs show up later.  So even though something hasn't been reported (are you sure?) that doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist.

                         

                        Might you step back and wonder if it is terminology which is tripping you up here?  Could you explain what SUPPORT and CERTIFIED means to FileMaker?  Maybe if we understood and you simply didn't dismiss or ignore our questions, we'd be more understanding of what FMI deals with.  As it is, you are simply alienating the very people who provide you with your paycheck.  Please be nicer to them.


                        • 10. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                          TSGal

                          Stella Luna:

                           

                          I apologize for the wording.  mr_vodka contacted me privately with the same sentiments.

                           

                          Since this is a public forum, when mr_vodka said "There are no issues with SP2 supposedly", someone could interpret that as FileMaker, Inc. hiding something, and I wanted to clarify that was not the case.  Obviously, my choice of words implied otherwise, and I apologize for that.

                           

                          There is some history with this issue that I neglected to mention in this thread, as it is posted elsewhere on this forum.  To summarize, our documentation shows Windows XP SP2, but all other literature and our web site shows Windows XP SP3.  Our Testing department informed me they began testing FileMaker Pro 10 with SP2, but when SP3 was released, all testing was focused on SP3 while SP2 was dropped.  When FileMaker Pro 10 was ready, it was certified only with SP3.  Certifying under an operating system does take time, and with the Testing department working towards the next version, a decision was made to not go back and test an earlier OS.

                           

                          On top of that, our Documentation is created months prior to release, and nobody caught the error during final editing.  A decision was made to not change the documentation.

                           

                          Certified means our Testing department thoroughly tested the product with a particular OS and it is fully functional.  Support is done after the product is released.  We do support users with Windows XP SP2, and to date, no problem has been reported that is attributed to SP2 versus SP3.  Like you said, "even though something hasn't been reported... doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist."  I agree.  If you find a problem between the two versions, please let me know!

                           

                          Because of this history, I wasn't trying to "dismiss" the issue.  At this point, I have done what I can.  Our president hears about our customers all the time through the employees.  However, a direct correspondence with a customer, without any "filter", seems to carry more weight.  That is what I intended, but I didn't communicate that in my initial post.

                           

                          I apologize for any upset I caused, and if you need any other information about this issue, please let me know.

                           

                          TSGal

                          FileMaker, Inc. 

                          • 11. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                            StellaLuna
                              

                            Thank you for the clarification, TSGal. You said, "Our president hears about our customers all the time through the employees.  However, a direct correspondence with a customer, without any "filter", seems to carry more weight. " 

                             

                            I am very pleased to hear this!  Please provide this person's full name and address so we all can contact him and we will stop complaining here!  Thank you for making this option available to us!! :smileyhappy:

                            • 12. Re: FMPA 10 Runtimes: What XP Service Pack level?
                              TSGal

                              Stella Luna:

                               

                              I have been previously instructed not to publish employee names, but you can find the information at:

                               

                              http://www.filemaker.com/company/execs.html?nav=company-management

                               

                              ... and the address for our worldwide headquarters at: 

                               

                              http://www.filemaker.com/company/contact.html?nav=company-contact

                               

                              On another note, please don't get the idea that I never want anyone to "stop complaining here".  I always want this to remain an open forum.  There has been one other time on this forum that I suggested contacting our president, but that issue was making sure a feature request was heard other than by our Feature Suggestion web form.  This is the first time I have asked someone to contact our president due to a company decision that is unacceptable to the customer.

                               

                              TSGal

                              FileMaker, Inc.