12 Replies Latest reply on Sep 30, 2014 12:25 PM by JohnStuart

    Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?

    Shardin

      Title

      Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?

      Post

      We pdf Filemaker layouts and we are having issues with a Xerox IGen printer printing the colors accurately. There seems to be RGB value limitations in filemaker and Xerox will not support that output. As a digital printer, these units cannot interpret RGB accurately.

      Does Filemaker manage 4 color processing? such that the final pdf output is in CMYK vs. RGB.

      Any suggestions as to how we can achieve the final output in CMYK, so that we can continue to use Filemaker?

        • 1. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
          Shardin

          Received an email from Filemaker Support that FileMaker Pro 11 uses RGB format... this seems very odd in this digital age... Printers work in CMYK.

          Please, does anybody know a work around to get the pdf's in CMYK?

          • 2. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
            akappy

            S.

            After our conversation today, I did some experiments. I had poor results importing CMYK color flat boxes either into the layout or into container fields. As of now the PDF editing software that we discussed seems to be the best option. Having us make color changes as part of our prepress function is another solution.

            Andy

            • 3. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
              rjlevesque

              RGB and CMYK is interpreted, not specific to a digital printer. I assume you are using a post script printer which is capable of professional print production at resolutions above 150 DPI. Any and all screen drawings for the interaction and use of controls within an OS will always be in RGB format. If you are printing from a screenshot then you will get RGB, if you are printing from a document which is saved in a CMYK format then you may still get RGB. You have to ensure your printers are calibrated to your monitors, and to your editing/printing software. Then you have to be sure that the printers chosen printing method for that particular print is CMYK...IF that printer offers this ability.

              Your issue has nothing to do with FileMaker in itself...

              • 4. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                rjlevesque

                What exactly is it you are trying to print/do? What do yo mean by "We pdf Filemaker layouts"?

                • 5. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                  Shardin

                  We create a final product by creating a pdf of a filemaker layout.   We are having issues with a Xerox IGen printer printing the colors accurately from the pdf files we provide them.  When they preflight the pdf they find that they are RGB instead of 4 color.   There seems to be RGB value limitations in filemaker and Xerox will not support that output.

                  • 6. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                    akappy

                    rjlevesque,

                    The fact that FM will not output CMYK is not unexpected in a program that is not primarily focused on the graphic arts. However, the OS is capable of carrying CMYK information all the way through the process to a CMYK capable printing device when the application software supports it. Since Filemaker outputs to PDF, it is unfortunate that it does a colorspace transform from CMYK to RGB in the process, this lack is not dictated by the OS. While a properly calibrated printing device should be able to make a reasonable transformation from RGB back to CMYK, it is highly unlikely that such a transform will ever equal the original CMYK values. In the case of photographic type imagery, it can be close enough. Where you are dealing with flat tints, as SHardin requires, this is not satisfactory.

                    There is much that I would like to see in future versions of FM. One would certainly be the ability to maintain colorspace when printing or exporting to PDF.

                    Andy

                    • 7. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                      rjlevesque

                      Of course you will have limitations within FileMaker because it is NOT an industry standard graphic design or layout application. As for the OS carrying the information...it can carry the data all day long but if you do not have a printer capable of printing in those formats it will not happen.

                      You can fake the CMYK but it will not be a true CMYK, just fool various software.

                      I guess I would have a couple of questions...

                      1. Are you using Pantone color standards? If so, who cares if the color reproduction of a prototype is a little off as long as the final print is on the money. You follow the Pantone formulas and you're good as gold.

                      2. (sorry but I have to ask this because it is killing me) Why in Gods name are you using FMP for mission critical graphic design jobs anyway? I mean FMP can do a lot of things, it is awesome, but Industry Standard Graphic Design software it is not...

                      and I stand by my first statement - the issue has nothing to do with FileMaker in itself (A Relational Database Production Software)

                      ---------------------------------------

                      There is a lot I would love to see FMP do in the future also, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a Ralational Database Software, so it is pretty amazing that it can do all the stuff it already does.  =)

                      • 8. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                        rjlevesque

                        I'm not ignorant when it comes to graphic design, I did over 20 years professionally in the field myself. 4/c process printing, digital, screen printing, you name it. I even remember the old days of paste up layouts just to print. So I completely understand what you are saying my friend...but I hope you see my points also. I just honestly do not think you are going to get what you want (exactly) out of this.

                        My new 4x4 truck does a lot too, but I still can't get that sucker to make me breakfast in the morning...but then again a truck isn't supposed to make me breakfast right?  hehehe

                        • 9. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                          akappy

                          S.

                          rlevesque makes a good point about FM's strengths vs limitations. Using FM to prepare final graphic oriented layouts is asking a lot. We spoke about a PDF editor. Another solution is to build high quality layouts in a graphic arts program and then use variable data software, i.e., FusionPro (an Acrobat Plug-in) to merge each data run with the layout for full quality output.

                          • 10. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                            rjlevesque

                            @Akappy - I honestly think you just hit on the best solution available for this situation...

                            • 11. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                              FabioFM

                              Sorry may I know what the solution you're talikng about? I have the same problem, since I'm passing FileMaker output PDF to an external typographiv printing service for a catalogue.

                              The external service people have to change text colors by hand to "pure" cmyk colors, cause we were not able to find a way to export pdf colors in cmyk

                              For example, we would have CMYK(0,100,0,0) for magenta text, but we obtain something like CMYK(2,96,4,7) after RGB to CMYK convertion.

                              Best would be having a simple PDF conversion utility program to convert SELECTED RGB text colors to SPECIFIC CMYK target colors only. But I was not able to find anything like this around.

                              However, I don't get why FM doesn't allow for CMYK output. I am a programmer myself and I think adding this feature it would take >one day< work for >one< person. And I realized we are not alone asking for this BASIC feature, simply google for it and see... Quiet odd.

                              • 12. Re: Need pdf's in CMYK, Filemaker pdf's them RGB, any way to change final output to CMYK?
                                JohnStuart

                                I'm not sure if relevant to this thread, but I have also experienced problems exporting PDF  from our FM database. In my case, we have a mixed bag of images, RGB, CMYK, gifs, png, jpg etc, with all sorts of generic profiles. It is only the CMYK that cause problems however, their colours invert. It is not a critical matter from our point of view as we only want use the PDFs for preview purposes, but it would be nice to find the reason.  Curiously there is a work around, and that is send the pages to print, and then, once your print dialogue comes up, you have the choice to save as PDF rather than spool to a selected printer. If you do this, all the images render correctly!. I assume that maybe the print dialogue option uses our native PDF app, whereas Fm's own function is configured for different preferences, just a guess. This work around is not ideal however, although this works, practically it has to be a manual solution, it is difficult to script the action as you can not name the output file, or append to existing pdfs etc. 

                                I would be interested to hear if anybody has suggestions as to what is going on.