12 Replies Latest reply on May 19, 2015 4:46 AM by bigtom

    Upgrade pricing and policy

    JavierVelazquez_1

      Title

      Upgrade pricing and policy

      Post

      Hello all,

      Just wondering why are the upgrades so expensive and why upgrading to FM14 pro advance costs the same for someone with FM13P or FM13P Advanced... as a Pro Advanced user from way back (FM7)  who payed more it is rather annoying to have to pay as much as someone who didn't... and anyway, again, the price is unreal for an upgrade. Maybe it is time to just quit with FM altogether. As an Apple company you probably don't even need the money but will get away with charging those prices anyway since the fans will pay whatever you charge. I just regret going this far with your product.

      Javier

        • 1. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
          schamblee

          This is a user forum that some Tech support employees from FMI view sometimes. Most user such as myself do not work for FMI.

          All companies have to make money.  You have a choice to leave FM but you will have to pay the price for using any companies software no matter where you go.  You pay full price, then you can get upgrade prices.   The user with older version has a shorter time period to upgrade to 14 at the special pricing.  It's a special price to get these users to purchase now.   It does not matter if they need the money or not.  It a matter if you want to use their software or not.  Their investment, time, work, and expense that went into making it.  So if I think you don't need money then I can get you to work for me for $2.00 an hour.   I have checked the prices of other software, and no one works for free, for what you get it is a pretty fair price.  You also have the option to do the rental program that most software companies offer now including FM.  If you are a reseller / developer then FM has a Business Alliance Program that offers software at additional discounts.   FM also offers volume discounts to all customer.  The more you buy the more you save.   FM usually has a software special about a year or so after a new release to sparks sells.  FM did a buy one get one free with both 12 and 13.   I know if I'm not making a profit then I going to do something different, and FMI is the same way. I'm sure there stock holders would not be to happy not make money.   No profits = No software.

          • 2. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
            JavierVelazquez_1

            Well, I am just me. I cannot buy volume discount because it is just me. Also buy one get one free offer is useless to the single user and it just usually means that a new version is coming out in a couple of months. So all your 'the more you buy the more you save' goes nowhere... It has always been just me buying the upgrades since time back. I find the upgrade not only expensive but I find the fact that someone who spent less money than me buying the previous version gets the same offer a bit of an insult. Yes, companies need money, and I am not implying I should get an upgrade for free. The rental program is what everyone else is doing and managing to upset the clients, the big 'As' are all about the money and the stock holders, 'Apple', Adobe, Autodesk, and burning bridges.

            Please, I pay for what I get and I get the whole point: companies are not friends nor do they care about us -whoever much they may market they do- or should actually care. All the examples of discounts you offered are only for those who are going to buy multiple copies. The single user, like always gets 'f@|<3d if you don't mind the expression of my feelings... yes, those single users who are not really going to tip the scale and give anyone a great profit margin... so why should we care? right?

            I know I have the option to not continue buying, use an illegal copy or not use the software at all, you needn't enlighten me about my choices. I have also the choice to come to the forum and express my feelings towards a company. Software price, like any other product, is not based in the time, work, and effort/expense that went into making it: it is solely based on how much people are willing to pay. Are we supposed now to feel sorry for programmers toiling night and day to make FM work? like FM shares the profit with them? Look, I get you, you like FMI, I just liked using their program... they want to milk me for more money and I don't think it is a fair price...

            Now peacefully looking into alternatives...

            • 3. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
              schamblee

              I have been developing for several years and every company has to make money to stay open, so they can make a new copy.  The upgrade price has not went up that much compared to the economy.  FMI has to pay for all their employees that are working on pass versions and future versions of FM and how FM runs on each operating system.  FMP and FMPA is installed on MACs and PCS and will be running on 4 or 5 different operating systems.  There are still two FMGo version now 13 and 14.   FMGo 13 will run on ios7,ios8 and FMGo 14 requires ios8.1. You also have FMS 13 and 14 which also runs on MACs and PCs and may also run on 4 or 5 different operating systems.   FMI has to cover the cost to support all the versions of the software and then the hardware required to do the testing.   If you consider everything that goes into a program as large as FMP then  you will see that the price is not that bad.   

              I develop in Visual FoxPro also and it was $299.00 to upgrade it several years ago, and Microsoft decided they were not making enough money so they drop the software.  Yep, Microsoft didn't give a dam about me or my clients they just stopped.   Fuel prices and shipping cost was not as high then as it is now. FM is $329.00

              Version 10 and older can't upgrade, Version 11 can only upgrade to Sept 25 2015, so that only leave users with 12 and 13.   The 12 users received  no benefit of using 13.  

              Buy One Get One Free, usually is about a year before a new version comes out.  I don't remember when I purchased, but I had Full version of 13 over a year.   

              How is it that FMI does not care?  Because they don't give their software away.    I care about my customers but I don't give my work away for free either.  I charge what I consider a fair price.   

              Feel free to check with other companies.  I have and the only software that may be a little cheaper is Microsoft Access, and it does not compare to Filemaker.  You get what you pay for.  

               

              • 4. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                PrisonProfessor

                Am I misinterpreting or is the upgrade a reoccurring monthly fee and not a flat price? I understanding of an upgrade cost but a reoccurring monthly cost that comes to $180 annually for how long? I likely end up paying more then I did for the original package and still be paying

                Am I missing something? Thanks

                 

                 

                 

                 

                • 5. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                  JavierVelazquez_1

                  I do not see any difference between what FMI has to do and any other software maker as far as keeping software working over different ecosystems. And others don't charge as much.  FMI record for solving problems is less than impressive, you will always get more help from other users than from FMI staff and as far as solving bugs in the software...  Look, some vendors reward the people who stick by them, some don't. A 60% upgrade price is steep in my opinion, especially when some of the 'new' features are more like solving a known problem rather than a whole new feature, in the past everything has been half baked (web viewers, container fields) and now one is supposed to fork more money because maybe they got it right? You don't have to mention MS, we know MS, Apple and the like... but FMI is just the same. And considering their ranking is not improving...

                  Subscription is the new 'bleed them' system they are all adopting. Some, like Adobe, don't give you any other choice... some do for now...

                  What beats me is that in a world where open source software is getting better and better why do software vendors insist on alienating their existing customers. Again, I don't mind paying and have been since FM7 and all the upgrades but I neither like their price (the upgrade amount is equal to a new copy of FM14)  nor the fact that having payed premium for the Advanced version it doesn't offer any benefits when it comes to upgrade. All offers from FMI are based on bulk orders or multiple copies. Subscription is just a "sodomize" me slowly please...

                  But hell, nobody has to meet my expectations, I know. I am just venting my anger at yet another upgrade abuse to the single small user. I don't make money with FM and it looks like they are not going to make much from me either, not that that would really matter in the end or change anything. 

                  • 6. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                    schamblee

                    PrisonProfessor

                    The upgrade price for  purchasing Filemaker Pro  is $196.00 and  Filemaker Pro Advance is $329.00.   There is a annual licensing that is available and FMI show what the monthly cost would be, but it is bill annually.   FMP would be $108.00 a year ($9.00 a month)  and FMPA would be $180.00 a year ($15.00 a month).  

                    There is  not much of a benefit just for one copy of FMP or FMPA.  The annual license is more of a benefit to users that need several copies of FMP, FMPA, and a copy of FMS.

                    • 7. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                      firebase

                      I am also very disapointed by the upgrade price but in generall that would be ok, for the price itself.

                      The advanced version ist still very unperfect (espsecially the editor).

                      I started about one year ago and about after 6 month I realised that I just cant work with this editor. So now with the 14 its a little bit better, but still unworkable with.

                      I spent so much time on searching something, its a joke!

                      Right now I print out the editor as a PDF, the i copy it into UltraEdit with Filemaker language regocnition and there i can search for variables and then a try to find them back in FM where the numer of lines do not fit anymore becaiuse of the space limitation of the PDF I did print it into they are breaked.

                      Its a joke that they even charge money for implementing lines numbers and other smalle gimmicks.

                      What they did is mor me not an upgrade its what should have been allways there, the version before was just a nightmare (goes only for the editoir itself)

                      And still there is no search function no colors for variables and all that stuff.

                      I am not going to upgrade, especially because i hevae serious crashed and line numbers jumping arround (FM 14 Pro demo version).

                       

                       

                      • 8. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                        JavierVelazquez_1

                        100% with you there Daniel,

                        Another of my problems is the 'container' fields. They quickly advertise their fantastic use but they are not usable across the board. It always feels like the upgrades are point releases: what they should have got it right in the first place.

                        • 9. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                          bigtom

                          If you are not seeing the values savings or making at least enough to pay full retail box price for all software updates you are doing something wrong. The upgrade system is in place for a reason and you should be grateful they off the program. I do not believe FMP7 users are eligible for an upgrade to FMP14 directly.

                          It is what it is.

                          • 10. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                            NaturSalus

                            As Tom pointed out, the bottom line is "money making". There is another key variable though: "lack of alternatives to FileMakerPro"

                            In general, many FMP users usually don't make enough money to keep upgrading and buying FMI products year after year. But as long as FMI gets revenue from its big customers they will continue with their pricing policies.

                            We all know the pitfalls of FMI products and policies, but as mentioned before: "it is what it is"

                            • 11. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                              JavierVelazquez_1

                              Yes, it is what it is. Some just don't like what it is. Not everyone uses FM to make money -if you can understand that- and I have upgraded religiously since FM7 every time to the latest version. An upgrade to FMP Advance is just as much as FMP. Not much of a saving, in my humble opinion, for point release features like almost every upgrade has been to date. Gratefulness is too big a word. Just about everyone offers upgrades for software and for less than 60% or the price,  so is not like FMI are so altruistic... I use FM for research,... well, until now. I don't make money with it but I can see their pricing is based on being bought by developers not end users like me and all the offers are based on volume buying... to tell someone to suck it up and just pay or shut up and be grateful is a bit on the retarded side, if you don't mind me saying. I would never tell anyone who wants to upgrade not to do so because I find the price too high. Same here, while I don't ask you to agree with me you can't equate my opinion about an upgrade with my ability to use the software. There is no relationship. Container fields do not work properly since a few versions back. Are they fixed now? Do they work properly in a viewer? I call that a point upgrade.

                              And yes, everything is always what it is.

                              • 12. Re: Upgrade pricing and policy
                                bigtom

                                I am not sure what exactly you do with research and FileMaker, but I would have to assume that the product saves you time by keeping track of some sort of data. That in itself is extremely valuable. I am not a commercial developer. I moved into this because I can handle doing it for my self. Commercial developers were too pricey and slow for what I needed. I have just under 10 seats and FMS with a group of iPads as well. I moved to FM from Bento. Bento was very under priced for what it did. Why did I make the move? Because there was incentive. I moved to FMPro licenses with Peer-Peer. Then FM13 came along and the Peer-Peer limit dropped. I upgraded to FMS. Why? Because there was incentive to do so. FMS was much faster anyway and It was a fairly big cost for the hardware and software compared to where we were with Bento.

                                Let's look at why companies started offering upgrade pricing a long time ago. It is a bit of an outdated convention. Lets take MS Office for example. You could go for 5 years on a version MS Office and it would work just fine. It was a word processor and a spreadsheet package for most people basically. This includes companies as well as individuals. There was no real need to upgrade because even though the new version may have had some cool new features it would do all the same basic things you needed it to do already and why pay for something you already had. I was still using Win3.11 when most people I knew were getting excited to install Win98. I just had no need. The upgrade discounts were an incentive to get you to buy something you did not need. There are always exceptions to this but for the most part this was the case.

                                The software market has changed considerably since those days. Things change faster. Big steps are made sometimes once a year instead of two or three years. That is when people began to complain that they would need to pay so much every year. This entered the realm of free upgrades for the previous version but not the one before that. This becomes hard to manage especially from a support standpoint and we starte to see annual subscription popping up.  A younger generation that is more comfortable with the idea of leasing software has emerged. The idea that you "own" the software is simply going away. Even though I still like the idea of felling like I paid for something I get to keep, the bottom line cost is all that matters. I think this has stabilized the software industry overall.

                                A big reason I moved to an annual plan with FM is because iOS is changing so fast and I know that it would be very easy to lose compatibility with FMGo if we did not keep up. I was very much on the fence of just deciding FM12 was good enough and there was no reason for me to upgrade until FM15+ maybe. The annual license model fits just fine. If you still have a retail box product you do still get some discount on the upgrades. You also own the software and can continue to use it for years. It is all pretty close when you look at the costs of retail box upgrades vs the annual plans. There is a slight discount for buying in bulk, but that is understandable.

                                The upgrade costs have not really increased much aside from the entry cost into concurrent connections.

                                Containers have never done me wrong, except for the thumbnail generation issues.