9 Replies Latest reply on May 18, 2010 11:36 PM by 5104919325FTN

    FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins

    chcsep

      Summary

      FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins

      Description of the issue

      Apparently, the default margin in FMP8 was 0.19in. And the default in FMP11 is 0.25. When I used the "recover" feature to fix the previous showstopping bug, it reset the page margins on all my layouts in the various databases I needed it on. Now everything bleeds onto a second page, and nothing lines up to where it was before.

        • 1. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
          philmodjunk

          I don't know if filemaker will consider this a bug or a case of the recover command setting things back to "factory defaults". In any case, it is not best practice to attempt to put a recovered file into regular use anyway. If recover was needed to fix an issue, the safest thing to do is to replace the file with an undamaged backup--importing new data from the recovered file if necessary/possible.

           

          Think of your damaged database as a car that's been in a wreck with the car body the database structure and your data as the "passengers". Now think of recover as the "jaws of life" tasked with rescuing your passengers. It may put your damaged structure back in place perfectly or it may destroy that structure in an effort to get your file into a format where it can be opened without a crash so that you can import data from it into a back up clone.

          • 2. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
            5104919325FTN

            I do not understand your problem.

             

            The default margin in FileMaker has no proper value, but refers to the default margin of the actual printer (sets the defined margins of your printer as default on the print layout).

             

            This is the reason why I consider it as an obligation to set the margins to (0, 0, 0, 0).

            It's a safe value, which should not be altered after a recover.

             

            Imho, I set the values not in inches, but in pixel.

             

            And by the way, I consider, that the standard for FileMaker should be [X] use fixed page margins (Top 0, Left 0, Bottom0, Right0), and the scala choosen in the preferences (px, cm, inch)

             

            And I agree, never use a recovered file on an operative system. Use it only to reimport all values on the last well doing clone-backup.

            • 3. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
              philmodjunk

              Actually, margins of (0, 0, 0, 0) can result in undesirable printing differences when a user switches to a different printer. The text will shift left/right/up/down on the page as each printer has a different maximum printing area. Specifying at least minimum  margins results in more consistent outputs for layouts that you intend to use to print hard copy and/or generate PDF files.

              • 4. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
                5104919325FTN

                Actually, margins of (0, 0, 0, 0) can result in undesirable printing differences when a user switches to a different printer. The text will shift left/right/up/down on the page as each printer has a different maximum printing area. Specifying at least minimum  margins results in more consistent outputs for layouts that you intend to use to print hard copy and/or generate PDF files.

                Of course not.

                 

                Quite the contrary.

                 

                If you put the margins at 0,0,0,0, you have the guarantee, that your text will never shift.

                 

                Because it makes it independent of the printer or the printer driver.

                Left 0, Top 0 is always the absolut left upper corner of the paper and has nothing to do with the maximum printing area.

                The m.p.a. is a setting of the printer driver and [X] use fixed page margins let FileMaker ignore the settings of the printer driver..

                 

                The only function of the standard margins from FileMaker is to avoid the case, the user will put any object outside of the maximum printing area of the printer, and for this, FileMaker follows then the settings of the printer driver.

                This is exactly, what will let your text shift, regarding wich printer you will use.

                • 5. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
                  philmodjunk

                  I stand corrected. Earlier versions of filemaker did not behave this way and I thought recent versions, Fmp 10 and 11 still worked this way.

                   

                  However, 0, 0, 0, 0 is an undesirable setting for many layouts as objects in the upper left corner of your layout may fail to print correctly as they extend into the non-printable area of the page and are then "clipped". If you adjust your layout so objects do not extend into this space, you give up useful space on your layout.

                   

                  Specifying minimum margins avoids this problem nicely and enables you to use the same layout for printing and data entry in many cases.

                  • 6. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
                    philmodjunk

                    Hmm, I knew I'd seen the issue with layout shift with filemaker 10 and I just figured out the difference: The "shift" occurs if fixed margins are NOT selected as objects at 0,0 in the inspector (or object info) will be placed in the upper left corner of the printable area in this case--not when fixed margins are specified, and that explains the issue to my satisfaction at least--just an imperfect memory.

                     

                    Thanks, for catching my error on this one!

                     

                    But I still can't recommend using fixed margins of zero for any cases where you might need to use a printer that can't print edge to edge for printing from the layout due to the clipping that will occur.

                    • 7. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
                      5104919325FTN

                       


                      [ ... ] may fail to print correctly as they extend into the non-printable area of the page and are then "clipped". If you adjust your layout so objects do not extend into this space, you give up useful space on your layout.

                      Specifying minimum margins avoids this problem nicely and enables you to use the same layout for printing and data entry in many cases.


                       

                      Well, my opinion is, that's better to always make a difference between data entry and printing :-)

                       

                      For quick'n'dirty, it might be okay, and of course, if you have different layouts, you will need then a stringent navigation concept.

                       

                      But ...

                      I would never oblige my customers to work with a white background, for their eyes sake and I don't like to put an non-printable surface as a background on each of my hundreds layouts, because of changing monitor size.

                      Further, the font or its size is not always the same (think about the eyes).

                      Or I will place on my print layouts logos and informations, that nobody needs to see on the data entry (people get crazy with an amount of informations, they don't need).

                      Or some data will be important to enter, and to be seen, but not to printed.

                       

                       

                      And ... Sometimes, for some customers, I go so far to make a difference between data entry, print, and daily use layouts.

                      • 8. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
                        philmodjunk

                        Fabricker,

                         

                        If I have offended you in any way, I aplogize. I've enjoyed the back and forth on my end.

                         

                        For me, I just don't see where specifying fixed 0 margins solvesor avoids any problems. On the contrary, it makes for more work as now I have to make sure to place objects inside the printer's printable area--a rectange that varies in size with different printers and I often don't know what printer my client will use. If I specify a margin of about 0.25 inches for top and left side, I get a reasonable "fit" that works with almost any printer and I can use Filemaker's page break lines to see if everything is placed correctly on the page.

                         

                        Like you, I often use multiple special use layouts (Print, data entry, etc), but often am able to save myself considerable maintenance effort by using one layout for both. It's a trade off between having to make multiple parallel changes to a group of layouts versus the advantages to dedicated layouts you've so aptly described in your last post.

                         

                        For me, the best approach breaks either way depending on the needs of my users and the structure of the database.

                        • 9. Re: FMP11 "recover" feature resets all page margins
                          5104919325FTN

                           


                          If I have offended you in any way, I aplogize. I've enjoyed the back and forth on my end.

                           

                          Oh no, no problems. My English is just too bad, to write with the really right words the right (emotional) way.

                          And so, sometimes, my words seem rudes, but I only want to explain something or just show my point of view -- I am the one to apologize, then ;-)

                           

                           


                          For me, I just don't see where specifying fixed 0 margins solvesor avoids any problems. On the contrary, it makes for more work as now I have to make sure to place objects inside the printer's printable area--a rectange that varies in size with different printers and I often don't know what printer my client will use. If I specify a margin of about 0.25 inches for top and left side, I get a reasonable "fit" that works with almost any printer and I can use Filemaker's page break lines to see if everything is placed correctly on the page.

                           

                          Okay, it's only a question of personal "way of working" :-)

                           

                          I have some particular layouts, with the correct values, which I always copy and paste. One customer has the value left '60', right '591' and top '67' for example, and I follow those rules.

                          And I always have a little transparent box 16*16 pixels in the upper left corner of each layout to make the copy and paste easier.

                           


                          Like you, I often use multiple special use layouts (Print, data entry, etc), but often am able to save myself considerable maintenance effort by using one layout for both. It's a trade off between having to make multiple parallel changes to a group of layouts versus the advantages to dedicated layouts you've so aptly described in your last post.

                          For me, the best approach breaks either way depending on the needs of my users and the structure of the database.


                          I agree absolutely (and undersign with both hands, as french people say).