6 Replies Latest reply on Apr 27, 2010 1:44 PM by LaRetta_1

    Line Length inconsistency

    LaRetta_1

      Summary

      Line Length inconsistency

      Description of the issue

      For those using prior versions of FileMaker (less than 11), you might have thought your lines were 990 px in length when they were actually 991.  This has been fixed in vs. 11 (the Object Info palette was mis-adding the numbers).  But all versions of FileMaker (at least on Windows) appear to be suffering from an additonal bug on line inconsistency.  Aligning objects and resizing windows are particularly affected. I have uploaded a document here which shows the issues.  http://www.4shared.com/document/8z2qwDUr/rectangles.html Briefly, if you increase the border on a rectangle, FM decreases the inside dimensions so that the outside overall size of the rectangle stays the same.  But with lines, the line thickness alone doesn't increase if you increase the line pt.  FM wraps the entire line with the increased thickness so a 300 px lines with border of 4 pt now becomes LONGER than the original.  The Object Info (Inspector) still shows the original number but items such as left align or resize to fit SEES the increase and doesn't respond as expected. I hope the PDF explains it.  Lines MUST size and align the same as rectangles and other objects.  And lines should never increase in length just because we are increasing the thickness of a line.  Please ask if anything is unclear.

        • 1. Re: Line Length inconsistency
          5104919325FTN

          I agree and confirm.

           

          As I begun to work with FileMaker (4.1), I was told from my boss:

          "A line with 0,5 and 1 pixel thickness has to be 2 pixel shorter than the field concerned (and begins subconsequently 1 pixel later on the right). Otherwise, your print will look very ugly!" *

           

          So: Field left = 50, bright = 500 means Line left = 51, lenght = 498 pixel...

          > > > one more reason to always use "pixel" as measurement unit to work precisely.

          A line with 2 pixel thickness means +2 on the left, -4 for the lenght/bright ...

          A line with 4 pixel thickness means +4 on the left, -8 for the lenght/bright ...

          Etc ...

           

          I admit (ashamed), I'm so accustomed on it, that I forgot to claim, how inconsequent it is.

          Now that you speak about it, LaRetta, I'm on your side for this require too (and kudoed you for it btw.).

           

          * Ugly color, isn't it?

          • 2. Re: Line Length inconsistency
            TSGal

            LaRetta:

             

            Thank you for your post.

             

            I am able to replicate the problem on both Windows and Mac OS machines.

             

            I have forwarded your PDF file along with my findings to our Development and Product Management departments for review and confirmation.  When more information becomes available for you, I will let you know.

             

            TSGal

            FileMaker, Inc.

            • 3. Re: Line Length inconsistency
              LaRetta_1

              Thanks, Fabrice ...

               

              I vaguely knew about it (back when I first started using FM).  But I didn't realize how bad it could be if someone used the line for Resize To Fit ... and they had used Object Info in vs. 10 to create the line.  They would think their line was 990 but it was actually 989 and they design around that.  Then when vs. 11 rolls out, their line is too long and they get the ugly scroll bar on the right.  Now they have to go shorten the line on every layout throughout their solution.

               

              I was told on another forum that EVERYONE knew lines were worthless and that lines should NEVER be used (paraphrased) and it's been that way FOREVER.  Hogwash. Most people don't know about the difference between rectangles and lines hardly anyone knows about the Object Info palette mis-adding in prior versions and fixed in 11.

               

               If we don't tell FM about it, it'll never be fixed.   FileMaker, please either fix lines or remove them.  Because if you don't, people will use them expecting them to be the length Inspector (Object Info) says they are and it will hurt your customers.

               

              UPDATE:  Thank you, TSGal ...

              • 4. Re: Line Length inconsistency
                5104919325FTN

                LaRetta wrote:

                Thanks, Fabrice ...

                I vaguely knew about it (back when I first started using FM).  But I didn't realize how bad it could be if someone used the line for Resize To Fit ... and they had used Object Info in vs. 10 to create the line.  They would think their line was 990 but it was actually 989 and they design around that.  Then when vs. 11 rolls out, their line is too long and they get the ugly scroll bar on the right.


                Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh! Worst case scenario.

                 

                Of course, always let 1 pixel on the right. We use monitors, RGB-system, and for ours eyes, this lack of one pixel, this last mini missing pixel until the right edge is good.

                It is paradox, but this interuption on the right range let it looks smrter and better. Our brain interprets it different than a missing pixel (or interupted line) on the paper and "adds" on a nice way the missing pixel :-)

                A really close line is always like a prison windows bar :-(

                 

                So, never let the line go until the end, always let an empty space..

                (imho)


                Now they have to go shorten the line on every layout throughout their solution.

                This is too bad.

                 


                I was told on another forum that EVERYONE knew lines were worthless and that lines should NEVER be used (paraphrased) and it's been that way FOREVER.  Hogwash. Most people don't know about the difference between rectangles and lines hardly anyone knows about the Object Info palette mis-adding in prior versions and fixed in 11.

                If we don't tell FM about it, it'll never be fixed. FileMaker, please either fix lines or remove them. Because if you don't, people will use them expecting them to be the length Inspector (Object Info) says they are and it will hurt your customers.


                Yes, we have to inform.

                But I don't agree this about "never use lines".

                I always have a very light gray background (211 until 233) and to separate areas, I use a thin "double" line.

                A grey one (181) joined to a white one offset.

                1 pixel under and 1 pixel to the right. It looks great, I like it, the users too.

                 


                UPDATE:  Thank you, TSGal ...

                I love TSGal too, TS is not only technical support, but real technical service (the french word)! And what a service!

                 


                • 5. Re: Line Length inconsistency
                  LaRetta_1

                  I just pointed out to the person who says 'never use lines even back in vs. 4'  that Ray Cologon (and he is top developer) used lines in most of his fp5 demos on his website to create a 'rounded' header line.  :smileysurprised:

                   

                  Rectangles can't rotate either.  Lines are not evil creatures; they were put on this earth to be used.   :smileywink:

                  • 6. Re: Line Length inconsistency
                    LaRetta_1

                    Just for clarification ... I was corrected when I said 'rectangles can't rotate.'  Okay, okay, they can rote 45 degree increments but they cannot swing (maybe that is a better word).  Lines can resize and swing at same time. 

                     

                    So regardless of the flak I'm getting from a few people, lines are valuable and will be more valuable when fixed.

                     

                    Specifically for those who still don't see the need ... we need consistency. When we thicken a line, it should not add thickness to the ends (make the line longer).  Or, if it must add thickness to the ends as well, then the other FM tools (alignment, windows etc) should pretend not to see the added length.  Currently, it throws off alignment, is deceptive in true line length and messes up Resize To Fit (along with probably other things).