14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 18, 2009 3:23 PM by TSGal

    Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10

    scottworld

      Summary

      Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10

      Description of the issue

      This is a long-standing bug that has been around ever since custom menus were introduced back in FileMaker 8. And it's still a problem today in FileMaker 10. If we create a custom "Edit" menu for our users where the "Paste" function (command-V) performs the script step "Paste Without Style" (instead of the normal Paste), it works just fine in all fields. The user can hit command-V all day long, and they can paste text without style all day long. HOWEVER, if the user goes to edit an editable drop-down list for a field by clicking in the field in browse mode, scrolling to the bottom of the drop-down list, and clicking "Edit...", FileMaker PREVENTS the user from PASTING into the dialog box. So they can't copy-and-paste to move value list items around in the dialog box. FileMaker doesn't realize that pasting without style is the exact same thing as pasting plain text into the drop-down list dialog box. FURTHERMORE, this bug prevents developers from developing as well, because developers can NOT paste within calculation fields when the custom "Edit" menu is there. The only workaround for this is to have the standard "Paste" functionality be assigned to command-V, but then we lose the functionality which we wanted to gain by having the "paste without style" functionality to begin with. FileMaker should just recognize that "paste without style" becomes a normal "paste" within calculation fields and value list dialog boxes. 

        • 1. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
          hschlossberg
             The bug with custom menus goes way beyond that, Scott.  Many Windows are accustomed to using CTRL-Insert to copy and Shift-Insert to paste.  These key combinations work fine with standard menus in FileMaker, as they do in ALL other applications.  If using custom menus in FileMaker, however -- even if you don't modify any of the Edit commands or their keyboard shortcuts -- these heavily used shortcut keys stop working.  I can't tell you how many times I've had users complain that they are unable to copy and paste -- and then there's NOTHING I can do about it other than remove all custom menus.  They can still use CTRL-C and CTRL-V to copy and paste, but many Windows users don't know that nor is it a very convenient key combination to get ones fingers around when you're doing a lot of cutting and pasting.  This too has been a problem since FM 8.
          • 2. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
            scottworld
              

            What?! OMG, I didn't realize the problem ran this deep!! Thank you, Howard, for pointing this out to me!! This really needs to be a high priority for FileMaker to fix this, yet they are completely unresponsive to this.

             

            They've basically given us this cool feature with so much potential -- custom menus -- but they've failed to make it work properly so we can't even implement it 100% in our solutions.

             

            I wish FileMaker would step back and actually fix all of these bugs for their next release, instead of trying to pile on one half-implemented feature after another.

             

            Thank you!!!

             

            See ya,

            Scott 

            • 3. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
              comment_1
                

              scotty321 wrote:
              They've basically given us this cool feature with so much potential -- custom menus -- but they've failed to make it work properly so we can't even implement it 100% in our solutions.

               

              I wish FileMaker would step back and actually fix all of these bugs for their next release, instead of trying to pile on one half-implemented feature after another.


              You're not the only one to think so.

               

              • 4. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                scottworld
                  

                Thank you so much for posting that. I've had it up to HERE with FileMaker.

                 

                I've got a list of bugs with FileMaker that is the size of the Guinness Book of World Records. I've reported all of them time and time again. FileMaker has never fixed any of them.

                 

                FileMaker Inc. has spent their entire history ignoring developers' and users' needs... I don't see why things would be any different now.

                • 5. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                  TSGal

                  All:

                   

                  Thank you for your posts.

                   

                  scotty321 - Your entire post has been forwarded to Development and Software Quality Assurance (Testing) departments for review.  There have been other reports of this, of which "howards" has mentioned.  What other bugs have you reported?  Let me know, so I can make sure Development and Testing are aware of them.

                   

                  comment - I hadn't previously seen the linked post on FMForums.com, so I have forwarded it directly to the FileMaker Pro product manager.

                   

                  Everyone - PLEASE don't be discouraged from reporting problems.  If you don't tell us, we won't be aware of them to fix.  Yes, this paste problem was first reported during FileMaker Pro 8 time frame.  Here, all problems are categorized and prioritized.  There are always more issues to fix than time allows, so many problems do not get addressed.  However, those problems do remain active for future releases.  Although I'm not the person who sets those priorities, if more customers report the same problem, it MAY affect the priority of the issue.  (That doesn't mean post the same problem over and over again.)  So again, PLEASE report any problems you encounter.

                   

                  TSGal

                  FileMaker, Inc.

                  • 6. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                    comment_1
                      

                    scotty321 wrote:
                    I don't see why things would be any different now.

                    Well, in all fairness, there are a few signs pointing to a possible change of attitude (these forums being one of them).

                    Of course, there's still a VERY far way to walk - but there may be a glint of hope on the horizon.

                    • 7. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                      hschlossberg
                        

                      I am encouraged by this forum, since at least we get an acknowledgement and/or requests for more details to replicate the issues.  I appreciate your participation here, TSGal.  While I'm sure the old bug reporting system ("The Black Hole") was reviewed by important people at FileMaker, this forum now gives other people the chance to chime in with additional information and pleadings.  

                       

                      Like Scotty, I have also reported many, many, many unfixed bugs over the years.  Right now, I can think of very few new features* I'd rather have over getting the bulk of these old bugs** fixed.  FMI's Marketing department (or whomever is responsible for prioritizing development work) needs to understand a plain truth: while a bug-fix release may or may not result in additional sales, I can guarantee you that the frequency with which I find myself working around bugs (many times a day, every single day) is quite discouraging and likely results in people LEAVING the FileMaker platform.  

                       

                      *mostly centered around a new, more web-like UI

                      **there won't be any controlling my language the next time a customer asks me to script an import that can't use "on matching names" (based on two VERY MAJOR bugs that have been around and reported on for years, plus an interface that was poorly designed even for the early 90's) 

                      • 8. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                        LaRetta_1
                          

                        Actually, TSGal, the link Comment referred to over on FM Forums was ALSO included in one of MY POSTS HERE on THIS forum with the same type of complaints about the HUGE unaddressed list of bugs and breaks which remain version after version and updater after updater.  And my post was addressed to YOU.

                         

                        • 9. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                          TSGal

                          howards:

                           

                          Thanks for the kind words.

                           

                          I know you have spoken previously with the FileMaker Pro product manager, so I have forwarded your post directly to him.

                           

                           

                          comment:

                           

                          I agree there is a long way to go, and I appreciate your "glint" of optimism.  One of my goals is to make sure all problems reported by customers are sent to Development and Testing for confirmation.  In the ten months since the FileMaker forum has been active, several changes have been made internally based upon the feedback received, including the re-organization of the Forum boards (there are more changes planned) and streamlining our Product Suggestion web form.  If there is something else you would like to see, please let me know.

                           

                           

                          TSGal

                          FileMaker, Inc. 

                          • 10. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                            comment_1
                              

                            TSGal wrote: 
                            If there is something else you would like to see, please let me know.

                            You mean other than what I wrote in that appeal?

                             

                            I believe product documentation would be a good area to spend some effort. This affects both the help file and - especially - the online Knowledge Base. If FMI can achieve even 10% of what Apple provides to its developers, it would be a giant improvement.

                             

                             

                            On the same note, I think FMI could also be more forthcoming about its plans, both short term and long term.

                            For example, I see no reason why the bug list couldn't be published, along with the priority assigned to each issue. That way we could know what to expect and plan accordingly.

                            If FMI management thinks this would reflect poorly on the company, they should consider the effect of a similar list being maintained by a third party - except instead of "we plan to fix this issue within the next 6 months", it will say "this issue has been known to FMI since ... ".

                            As for long term, again I suggest FMI take a hint from the mother company. Apple is notorious for its secrecy - but look how much is known (and has been known for over a year) about its next big step.

                            And what do we know about the plans for version 11? Nothing. Why is that?



                            • 11. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                              hschlossberg
                                 Because you didn't fork over $1400 for the FileMaker Developers Conference this past weekend.  If they gave away such information for free, then...well...I don't know what.  They don't even give most FBA members more than a couple weeks advance notice on new versions.  They presumably want people to buy into DevCon for such information.  Certainly the NDA is much less secure with DevCon attendees then it would be with FBA members, so that can't be the reason.
                              • 12. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                                TSGal

                                comment:

                                 

                                Thank you for your post.

                                 

                                I have forwarded your product documentation comments (no pun intended) to the Product Documentation manager.  It would be helpful (and appreciative) if you could provide a couple of examples.  I'll make sure they get forwarded back to the manager.

                                 

                                The Knowledge Base articles are written by members of our Technical Support department.  When a few people report the same problem, an article is written.  In general, it is a "reactive" type of article.  If there is something additional you would like to see in the Knowledge Base Articles, please let me know.

                                 

                                I can't comment about future plans.

                                 

                                Publishing a "bug list" was considered, but due to several factors that I won't go into, it was temporarily shelved.  It will definitely be revisited at a later time.

                                 

                                TSGal

                                FileMaker, Inc. 

                                • 13. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                                  comment_1
                                    

                                  I can provide examples from here to... that's not the point. The point that someone should constantly monitor the help and correct inaccuracies, rewrite ambiguous or incomprehensible parts, and add more information that can be useful. And that someone better be a competent technical writer.


                                  However, if you insist, here are just a few examples:


                                  1. The help on the Date() function says this about the month parameter:

                                  month - the month of the year (a two-digit number; see note).
                                  day - the day of the month (a two-digit number; see note).
                                  year - the year (four digits between 0001 and 4000. For example, 2010 but not 10).


                                  In fact, the parameters are of type number and there is absolutely no need to enter leading zeros.

                                  What the help does NOT say is that the entered number will be truncated to its integer part.

                                  Mind you, this is actually a correction of the previous version - see:
                                  http://fmforums.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/177012/post/207066/#207066

                                  Since that exchange, a note has been added regarding 0 and negative parameters. However, there's still no mention of the fact that the day and months parameters values cannot exceed 32,767.


                                   

                                  2. The help on the Ln() function says:

                                  For 0, the Ln function returns nothing because this value is out of the acceptable range.


                                  But the truth is that Ln ( 0 ) returns - correctly - an error, which is quite different from 'nothing'.



                                  3. The help on the Code() function is misleading - see:
                                  http://fmforums.com/forum/showpost.php?post/313905/



                                  4. The help on the GetAsBoolean() function does NOT mention that the function forces evaluation of a calculation field, even when all referenced field are empty.



                                  All of these are from the Functions reference section alone; I could go on and on - but the point is it's not MY job to do this.


                                  As for the KB, I am not even going to bother with examples. The entire thing needs to be completely reorganized. As it stands, it's a hopeless hodge-podge of press releases, suggested techniques (including some very lame calculations dating back to version 3), bug alerts, changes of behavior ... not something one would expect from a company that provides tools for organizing information.






                                  • 14. Re: Pasting bug in FileMaker Pro 10
                                    TSGal

                                    comment:

                                     

                                    Great information!

                                     

                                    I agree that it is not your job to do this, but I definitely appreciate you taking the time to provide the examples, and I have made sure your feedback has been forwarded to the proper individuals.

                                     

                                    TSGal

                                    FileMaker, Inc.