14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 7, 2015 6:36 AM by mahacker

    Report hangs in FMPAdv 14

    mahacker

      Summary

      Report hangs in FMPAdv 14

      Product

      FileMaker Pro

      Version

      14.0.1

      Operating system version

      Win7Pro

      Description of the issue

      (Simple) report(s) hang in FMProAdvanced 14 when they are fine with FMPro13 (normal and advanced) - they are processing against a FMPServer 13 (haven't performed upgrade yet to 14 Server).

      Report does a GTRR - Show only related, match found set
      Sort Records

      about 3000 records.

      All works quick with FMP13 but with 14 it just hangs on the Find Records step. Hah! just as I write this, it doesn't hang and just works fine (I was going to say this) - that it doesn't hang all the time. So, that's even stranger. No real network traffic, no load on server, etc. When it hangs, I often need to quit (if I can) 14 altogether, as it sometimes blanks out the "File Exit" command. I never saw this with 13.

      Nothing particularly interesting in the FMServer logs. A few event 661 - authent failed (not sure why) - maybe related? and then an event 30 when I probably force quit FMPro.

      Anyway, all is working perfectly as I type this - but there is this sporadic thing, which does not happen with FMPro 13 - and testing is done at the same time against same server, using same login credentials.

        • 1. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
          TSGal

          Mark Hacker:

          Thank you for your post.

          Your description doesn't provide a lot of information as to a cause of the hang.  Are other users executing a script that goes through all records?  Do you have any schedules that backup the database files?  If so, how often are they run?  Is it possible a backup was occurring just prior to running the report?  The backup would pause the database files until the backup is complete.  Check the Event log for other information at the time of the pause.

          FileMaker Server Event 661 is failed authentication warnings.  These get logged when a user tries to access a database file, and either the account name and/or password is incorrect.  For more information, see Knowledge Base Article #6785:

          http://help.filemaker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6785

          TSGal
          FileMaker, Inc.

          • 2. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
            philmodjunk

            Hmm there are other causes for a 661--such as logging into the file with a Filemaker authenticated password when there are externally authenticated accounts listed ahead of the Filemaker account used in the log in, but none are likely to be the source of your trouble here

            • 3. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
              mahacker

              Sure - here is more info (not that there is alot)...It's happening right now - when I hit the button to create the report - all I am presented on screen is a "Find" diaglog box with the words Find in progress...Processing Query  (Cancel) and that's it....when I hit cancel sometimes it just hands the app, sometimes it gives me the opportunity to cancel/continue the script. In almost all cases, I need to quit FMP (sometimes need to force quit with task manager).

              Answers:

              Are other users executing a script that goes through all records?  

              No.

              Do you have any schedules that backup the database files?  

              Yes. But this is overnight as backup process, not during the day.

              Is it possible a backup was occurring just prior to running the report?

              No.

               The backup would pause the database files until the backup is complete.  Check the Event log for other information at the time of the pause.

              No pause.

              I'm happy for someone to remote in and see this all in action if that helps.

              • 4. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                mahacker

                Here is more to this pattern...

                When it fails, it fails on all my reports...

                I hit the script button and it just sits there doing a Find in Progress...Processing query...hit Cancel...

                It then says Go To Related Record has been canceled - do you wish to continue with script. Continue or Cancel. I hit Cancel. 

                Run report again. This it just comes up with the Sort Dialogue box and just sits there on a random number of records remaining to sort...hit cancel. Run again, then it sits on this same sort dialogue with smaller number of records to sort. Hit cancel. Run again, then it comes up fine as a report.

                Sometimes it completes fine without any of this.

                And, all is perfect with FMPro13.

                And, this seems to something new (for me) as all was good with FMPro14Adv for a while - maybe it's me, and I did something to the db...(maybe)...but that all is fine with 13 is the strange thing.

                 

                 

                • 5. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                  mahacker

                  Oh, and I'll add that I never see the problem with these reports if I run them against a smaller found set.

                  • 6. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                    philmodjunk

                    Oh, and I'll add that I never see the problem with these reports if I run them against a smaller found set.

                    That's on the right track. How many records are there in this table?

                    Being unable to cancel out an ill conceived find is a long running complaint/issue previously reported by many.

                    But it's the total number of records in your table and the criteria used that can make a huge difference.

                    For the find itself, check and see if you are specifying find criteria in any of the following:

                    a) An unstored calculation field
                    b) An unindexed field--which includes a) but also includes data fields with indexing turned off
                    c) Fields from a table related to your layout's table occurrence (context)
                    d) criteria using inequalities

                    With large data sets, searches using the above can bring your entire system to its knees. In such cases, you have to rethink how you are finding records and sometimes you need to even change how your data is stored in the table. Sometimes it's worth the programming and added tables to generate a summary table that "condenses" data into fewer records in order to get better performance.

                    Also, when your find produces a large found set, things like summary fields, unstored calculation fields and conditional formatting can slow the update of your layout to a very slow crawl...

                    • 7. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                      mahacker

                      Thanks.

                      I'll work through your suggestions.

                      Table size(s) for various tables that reports are being run on (and this behaviour described affects all reports thus all tables).

                      1 is 3000 records

                      1 is 5000 records

                      1 is 2300 records

                      Even with you suggestions I've never seen this with v13 - so, are these well know issues only due to v14?

                      Also, I would think this record size is pretty small (compared with others) and I use FMPServer - which I thought should help (even though I know processing mostly is done at the client end).

                      The end result - so far, for me, is that using FMP14 is a step backwards.

                      To be fair, I could/should upgrade the server to be FMP14 as well - to see if that helps. And I will go through the steps above. 

                      However, as a naive suggestion, when all is/was working great under 13 and problems arrive when using 14, I thought I should post a bug report for 14.

                      I am open to the idea that 14 has exposed design flaws in the database that 13 masked. Perhaps.

                      **Additional: Copied the database locally to take FMServer out of the picture. Still have no problem with FM13, but FM14 still has problems - with same db. Now, with FM14 it even faults on opening the db, as it does an initial sort on opening. So, my issue is with FM14 and sorting. Seems like Server has nothing to add to discussion and I can't make it error with FM13. I even worked off an older backup of db (to see if I did 'something' to the db to make this happen) and same faults occur on 14.I'll try rebooting my box to see if that helps...

                      ***More...Rebooted...not expecting any difference - but Yes, I can't fault FM14 now. All is working great. Both locally and on Server.I normally put my PC to sleep and don't reboot that often - so, 'maybe' that is the cause of the degradation?? Could FM14 act differently that FM13 when quitting and launching? 

                       

                      • 8. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                        philmodjunk

                        I am describing known behavior going back to hmm, maybe FileMaker 3, the first relational version of FileMaker?

                        The total number of records is not the only factor here, but the more records in your table, the longer all searches and sorts will take.

                        It's also possible that your file or some of its indexes are damaged. You might try recovering your file and then testing your recovered copy to see if it exhibits the same behavior.

                        Due to other bugs documented here, I'm personally not using FileMaker 14 as development in it is too risky so I don't know if there are any major differences with finds and sorts, but haven't seen any reports by others to suggest that this is the possibility. A major part of identifying and documenting a bug is to rule out all possible other causes for the problem and that's what my suggestions are intended to do.

                        • 9. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                          mahacker

                          I am just reporting what I am seeing. And, I wonder why FM13 is fine and FM14 degraded, and then is fine after reboot. Perhaps I'll follow your lead, and wait....(which is not a great endorsement). I normally stay quiet on these forums, but thought I should do my bit and report what I saw - especially since it seemed to be something specifically with 14 and not my db (since all was fine with 13). Anyway, I hope it helps if others with tracing possible bugs.

                          • 10. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                            mahacker

                            Ok - latest (possibly last) observation.

                            I wondered why this was happening (and why I only noticed this now). Reboot seems to resolve things, but only if I launch FM14 first. If I launch other apps prior to opening FM14, I can drive the same problem every time. Plenty of RAM on this box (32Gb). And, with all tests, I compare with FM13, and again, it is fine. Last thing I can try is to de-install 14 and install again - 'maybe' it's corrupted (somehow).

                            **Edit: De-install and re-install FM14 - all is working perfectly - can't make it fault. So, will put it down to some form of corruption in FM14 (so far as best answer).

                             

                            • 11. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                              TSGal

                              Mark Hacker:

                              Thank you for your answers and observations.

                              It appears reinstallation of FileMaker Pro 14 is now working.  If you still run into problems, please let me know.

                              TSGal
                              FileMaker, Inc.

                              • 12. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                                mahacker

                                Good news only lasted 2 days. Rebooted. Same as before..13 is just fine and rock solid. Will wait for FM to fix things.

                                • 13. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                                  TSGal

                                  Mark Hacker:

                                  FileMaker can't "fix" whatever is causing your problem.

                                  Since the issue also happens locally, have you tried recovering the file under FileMaker Pro 14?

                                  If you want, send in a clone of your database file so we can work with it here.  Check your Inbox at the top of this page for instructions where to send the file.

                                  TSGal
                                  FileMaker, Inc.

                                  • 14. Re: Report hangs in FMPAdv 14
                                    mahacker

                                    Thanks for the offer - but I don't want to send the file. I am happy for a remote session to show you things in (in)action.

                                    I have more faith, I think FM can fix the problem (as they have with others in the past).