7 Replies Latest reply on Nov 19, 2009 1:05 AM by JonJ

    Scandinavian ø

    JonJ

      Summary

      Scandinavian ø

      Description of the issue

      When English is used as the indexing language of a field, the character 'ø' is treated as a different from 'o'.   This may be appropriate for indexing in Scandinavian languages, but seems counter-intuitive for English indexing -- for example the Unicode consortium's UTF-32 standard even describes it as "Latin small letter o with stroke", and other accents and diacritic marks are ignored in English indexing.   This means that a search for "Ho" will return "Hoffmann", "Hömell" and "Hòs" but not "Høffer" -- confusing for English speaks, especially where names from various languages are being stored in the same field (e.g. an international customer database). Is this intentional? I am hosting databases on Filemaker Server 10 on Windows Sever 2008, and using mixed filemaker clients (filemaker 9 and 9adv on Mac and on PC, filemaker 10 and 10adv on mac and PC).  All Filemaker software is fully updated, as are the operating systems.   This problem seems to have emerged since we upgraded to server 10 -- at least, it was first reported shortly after we upgraded. Many thanks for looking in to this. Jon.  

        • 1. Re: Scandinavian ø
          TSGal

          JonJ:

           

          Thank you for your post.

           

          I can also replicate the problem in FileMaker Pro 9 and FileMaker Pro 10.

           

          The Scandinavian characters ø, å, and œ all appear at the end of a sort.  I know that å equates to aa, but it appears that ø does not equate to "o".  I can perform a search on "Hø" and "Høffer" then appears.  In other words, this special characters is not equating to an english character.

           

          I have forwarded this information to our Development and Software Quality Assurance (Testing) departments for more information.

           

          TSGal

          FileMaker, Inc. 

          • 2. Re: Scandinavian ø
            JonJ
              

            Thanks for your quick response. 

             

            >I know that å equates to aa

             

            Should 'å' equate to 'aa'?  Under English sorting I'd expect it to be treated as 'a', for the same reason as 'ø' going to 'o'. 

             

            Otherwise it assumes too much a priori knowledge of the sorting rules of a language *other* than English. 

             

            If I knew these Danish/Norwegian rules, and wanted to apply them, I'd pick Danish or Norwegian as the indexing language! 

             

            As far as English is concerned, 'å' is an 'a' with an extra bit, and should be treated as an 'a'.

             

            Cheers,

             

            J. 

             

            • 3. Re: Scandinavian ø
              TSGal

              JonJ:

               

              I apologize for the confusion on my part.  I was assuming you were running under a Scandinavian system; not English.

               

              Yes, å does get translated to "a" in an English system.  I have verified that Ø does not get translated to O in English.  I have forwarded this information to our Development and Software Quality Assurance (Testing) departments for review.

               

              TSGal

              FileMaker, Inc. 

              • 4. Re: Scandinavian ø
                TSGal

                JonJ:

                 

                I received some additional information from our Development team.

                 

                "The Unicode tables give all characters with a stroke through them different weights/values than other English characters.  English speakers will learn that a stroke is not an accent, thus an ø is a completely different character than an o.  This also applies to the character ŧ, as it does not equate to the English letter t."

                 

                Therefore, at this time, you will need to specifically search for those characters with a line through them.

                 

                TSGal

                FileMaker, Inc. 

                 

                 

                • 5. Re: Scandinavian ø
                  JonJ
                    

                  > English speakers will learn that a stroke is not an accent, thus an ø is a completely different character than an o.  > This also applies to the character ŧ, as it does not equate to the English letter t."

                   

                  "will learn"!?   

                  Well yes, sir, I will learn, sir.  (and thank you very much for letting me use your databases, sir..).

                   

                  And thank you, Development team, for making us all here in Amsterdam learn a bit more Danish than we thought I needed to run an English-language database! 

                  I'll arrange for some Danish keyboards for our staff to facilitate filemaker use.

                   

                  While we're about it, could I mention that FileMaker’s help program treats 'ø' as 'o' (try a search for "nønsensical" or "idiøtic"). 

                  As does this forum’s own search facility. 

                  Can we settle on a consistent rule, please?

                   

                  • 6. Re: Scandinavian ø
                    TSGal

                    JonJ:

                     

                    Sorry.  I'm only the messenger.

                     

                    Maybe I shouldn't have posted what was said, but I thought you should have the information.

                     

                    Yes, the Help system treats ø as o, as does the forum (which is licensed from Lithium).

                     

                    Anyway, this is how FileMaker Pro is currently evaluating these characters.  All of your comments have been forwarded back to Development and Software Quality Assurance (Testing) for review.  I can't promise you anything other than what I've already told you.

                     

                    I would encourage you to also enter this information into our Feature Suggestion web site at:

                     

                    http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html

                     

                    People from Product Management and Development read these suggestions and discuss them.

                     

                    Although I could easily copy your posts and paste them into the web form, there are additional questions asked that only you can answer.

                     

                    When entering the suggestion, please just don't say "Add this feature".  Explain what you are trying to do, what is occurring, how it is affecting the business, use the example of the Help system, etc.  The more "real-life" information you can provide, the more notice it will receive.

                     

                    TSGal

                    FileMaker, Inc. 

                     

                     

                    • 7. Re: Scandinavian ø
                      JonJ
                        

                      Hi,

                       

                      Thanks for your help -- I entered a feature request with a detailed explanation!

                       

                      Cheers,

                       

                      J.