11 Replies Latest reply on Aug 17, 2015 7:46 AM by TSGal

    Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images

    eric

      Summary

      Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images

      Product

      FileMaker Pro

      Version

      12.x

      Operating system version

      Mac OS 10.6.8, etc.

      Description of the issue

      When storing modestly-sized external images and PDFs, FileMaker Pro also generates identical JPEGs, which sometimes consume several times the storage space as the originals.

      E.g.: https://fmdev.filemaker.com/message/120288

      Steps to reproduce the problem

      I'm storing megapixel black and white TIFFs externally, less than 35 KB each. The storage is on FileMaker Server Advanced.
      Right-click, "Insert Picture..." to insert the TIFF.

      https://fmdev.filemaker.com/message/120288

      Expected result

      I expect the server to store the TIFF original on the server and nothing else, unless I specify storage of thumbnails. (I turned off generation of thumbnails.)
      If FileMaker Server or Pro is supposed to generate an extra JPEG that is useful for something, at least the extra JPEG file should be less than half the storage size as the original. Still, I would expect this extra JPEG to be optional.

      Actual result

      When I insert a TIFF, it also generates an identical JPEG—except the JPEG is consuming 20 times the storage size as the TIFF!
      Having over a million of these to insert grossly abuses server disk space.

      https://fmdev.filemaker.com/message/120288

      Exact text of any error message(s) that appear

      No error messages until someone unexpectedly fills up the server disk.

      Workaround

      The workaround is not to use FileMaker Pro's new external storage for containers feature, but to use some other calculated location method that worked in version 11.

        • 1. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
          MikhailEdoshin

               Black and white images probably get compressed much more efficiently with TIFF, which uses general-purpose LZW or maybe run-lenght encoding, than with JPEG, which was optimized for photographs.

               Do you have to store them as images? If you store them simply as files, it won't add any extra image streams.

          • 2. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
            eric

                 Can storing them as files keep the TIFFs viewable in FileMaker Pro?
                 The purpose of this container is to make them visibly available and printable within FileMaker Pro.

            • 3. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
              philmodjunk

                   Try it and see. It should work--but can create other issues to be carefully handled when the file is also shared over a network and all the users need to be able to see the image. The folder that stores the image file has to be accessible to each user and the file path from each user's computer has to be exactly the same.

                   External storage is an attempt by FileMaker to resolve some of those complications.

              • 4. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                eric

                     I tried it. Insert File produced the same extra-large JPEG as Insert Image. These were the options:

                     

                          Insert File [ PRCindex::DocImage; “$imagePath” ] [ Storage method: Insert ] [ Display content ] [ Compression: Never compress ]

                • 5. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                  eric

                       If I don't check the [ Display content ] option, then Insert File only imports the tiff without generating a JPEG, but then only the icon shows in the container.

                       Since FileMaker can display TIFFs directly, I assume the JPEG is for web publishing. This should be an option, not a requirement.
                       If FMP had been a little smarter with the web publishing, it would have produced a GIF for my 1-bit tiff; at least the equivalent GIF is only twice the size of my TIFF instead of the JPEG, which is 20 times the size.

                  • 6. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                    Fred(CH)

                         Hi,

                         I post here just to clarify few things (essentially for future visitors) although i haven't the soution, sorry.

                         Phil is talking about inserting a reference, instead of the file itself. This option is available on numerous insertion type like File, Image, Video and more.

                         But Eric is talking about insertion type itself. For supported image, the insertion type can be "File" (not viewable, just an icon) or "Image" (viewable). Eric stated that the second one produces the behavior.

                         Unfortunately, since FileMaker 12, a confusion is made with the new script step "Insert File", that allow to fix serveral option like [View content]. If you check it, the result is equal to "Insert Image" even the step name is "File".

                         Bye, Fred

                    • 7. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                      eric

                      Well, it's version 14 now, and this issue is still a problem.

                      • 8. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                        TSGal

                        eric:

                        Thank you for your posts.

                        The JPEG files were needed for Instant Web Publishing in FileMaker Pro 12.  Since the file format has not changed, this will still exist in FileMaker Pro 14.  If the JPEG generation was removed, customers taking solutions developed in FileMaker Pro 14 would not be able to use Instant Web Publishing in FileMaker Server 12.  Obviously, this is a small number of customers and dwindling, as most customer have transitioned to WebDirect.

                        I have sent your posts to our Development and Testing departments for review.  However, this is a better question to our Product Management team, so I recommend that you post this issue in our Feature Requests web form at:

                        http://www.filemaker.com/company/contact/feature_request.html

                        The entries into this form populate a database file that is hosted and monitored by Product Management and Development.  This will get the appropriate people involved to determine what it would take to change this.  All entries into this web form are read, discussed and considered for possible implementation in a future release.  Although I could easily copy your posts and paste them into the web form, there are a couple of contact questions asked on the form that only you can answer.

                        TSGal
                        FileMaker, Inc.

                        • 9. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                          TSGal

                          eric:

                          Development would like to obtain a sample TIFF file from you.  Check your Inbox at the top of this page for instructions where to send the file.

                          TSGal
                          FileMaker, Inc.

                          • 10. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                            eric
                            I e-mailed some samples according to the instructions. Thank you for looking into this.
                             
                            The JPEGs can be up to forty times larger than the original 1-bit (black&white) TIFFs. This is unbearable for the millions of images we have to store. Also, 1-bit TIFFs are still a big standard (if not the biggest) in the document storage industry.
                             
                            I also included a couple sample exports to other formats using other applications:
                                   
                            • a 1-bit PNG export was less than twice the size of the original TIFF
                            •      
                            • an 8-bit GIF export was about double the size of the original TIFF.
                                   I don't know if a 1-bit GIF would have been much smaller.
                            If FileMaker could convert to these formats at these sizes, that would be much more bearable, but it would still suddenly triple our document storage needs.
                            • 11. Re: Storing Container Externally Generates Larger Extra JPEG Images
                              TSGal

                              eric:

                              Just a confirmation that your files have been received and sent to Development for review.

                              TSGal
                              FileMaker, Inc.