1 2 3 Previous Next 36 Replies Latest reply on Sep 6, 2015 8:43 AM by eoin

    Do we think points leaping is fair?

    jrenfrew

      With the recent merging of forums it seems that about 25 people have leapfrogged me in the rankings chart.

      Shame, but not that much of an issue

       

      But what I have discovered is that someone who I know to be a relatively new FMI employee with only 2 posts has 3000 points.

       

      Do we really think this is fair?

      Mine represent several years of contributions and learning and being seen as having specialist knowledge is a couple of areas.

      To me this, more than anything else, devalues the notion of having the point system at all.

       

      For 'newbies' it indicates something about the experience of the person who answers. I already know that Beverly, Wim, Taylor etc are worth paying attention to without any tag they have, but it is the only way we currently have of measuring interaction with the community.

       

      Please don't abuse it like this.

        • 1. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
          Markus Schneider

          I can't answer the second part of Your posting - but it seems that I'm one of those 25...

           

          Haven't met You (virtually) before these community forums, but I enjoy reading Your postings  (-:

          (btw. Thank You for Your twitter tweets! Really like them!)

           

          I 'know' Bev, Wim, Agi, Jimmy, LaRetta, Rick - and many others - from the old days, the list-server-times (btw - what's about Bart?) and got a lot of my knowledge thanks to their help!

           

          My added points/postings are coming from forums.filemaker.com - and would be even more, if posting did not become impossible with iPads. I'm a FBA member for more than 10 years (FSA since 2003). Before, I was working for a company that was also FBA... My first FileMaker Pro projects were under V2.0 (and Yes... the last time, a customer called for help on V2 was last summer...).

           

          I got a site licence, got 6 Mac Mini's here  - every one is running a FMS version (we got still customers who are running V11, so the servers will run V11-V14 versions of FMS, although for internal use only, we do no hosting)

           

          I joined the forums (as indicated somewhere) in 2011 - but that's due to some changes in email-addresses, first contacts were earlier.

           

          And: Sorry for my bad english, I'm Swiss

          • 2. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
            jurgmay

            As a regular 'lurker' on the forums maybe I can offer an opinion.

             

            To me it doesn't matter how many points a person has. If the advice seems sound and when I apply their solution it works then I'll accept their help. If many people offer differing examples of how to solve a problem I'll often try them all and go with the one that best suits my development methodology.

             

            Also, users can't even see how many points someone has unless they hover over their avatar. I never do that and only just now did I realise what your number 6 means.

             

            What I can say is that I know in my mind that your advice is worth listening to and I have a list of others who I also hold in high regard.

             

            What I would say is forget the points and carry on doing a great job. These forums need folk like you.

             

            Juerg

            • 3. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
              electon

              Isn't it the case that here you can gain huge extra ranking points if you add your certificates or alliances to the profile?

              In the case of FMI employees ( recent ones ), I would think that if they are hired they must have quite some level of experience.

              FMI has control over the forums so they can bump the points however they like.

              If an employee comes on and has a Newbie status, it would look ridiculous.

               

              I don't look at the points that much, well maybe only with envy. LOL

              It's there and some may need this as a guideline ( especially if you get many posts to read ).

              But any point system will not exactly reflect one's abilities and it's unfortunate that it can be used as a measure of some sort.

              Be it when potential customers scan the media for your name.

               

              IMHO, the content quality is more important and there are no algorithms for that, but the judgement is personal, my own.

              I'd rather not give that power up to a computer algorithm. We already are somewhat being shaped by software at the social media levels and no, it's not a conspiracy.

              I think that the trap is to really leave the thinking to the computers till we forget how to do it ourselves.

               

               

              So, here are my 2 cents. Maybe little over the edge and anyone reading , please don't take anything personal, it's just how I feel about it.

              • 4. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                beverly

                +1

                 

                Even us "old timers" might learn a thing or two from the replies. I know I do. That's what makes us a COMMUNITY.

                 

                Thanks for all that replied over the decades!

                 

                -- sent from myPhone --

                Beverly Voth

                --

                • 5. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                  Mike_Mitchell

                  "Isn't it the case that here you can gain huge extra ranking points if you add your certificates or alliances to the profile?"

                   

                  Yes, you do. But I believe that's appropriate, as it adds a level of credibility to the responses.

                  • 6. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                    electon

                    Mike_Mitchell wrote:

                     

                    "Isn't it the case that here you can gain huge extra ranking points if you add your certificates or alliances to the profile?"

                     

                    Yes, you do. But I believe that's appropriate, as it adds a level of credibility to the responses.

                    Definitely, I'm not arguing that.

                    • 7. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                      user19752

                      I agree "If an employee comes on and has a Newbie status, it would look ridiculous."

                      But, there is defined "Missions" in the point system, so feeling unfair to get point without doing any mission is reasonable for me.

                      Max point is certified 12 or 13 as 800points, so adding 14 can be 2400.

                      It may be fair if there is a mission "employed" as 3000 point

                      • 8. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                        Markus Schneider

                        I forgot to mention that I never paid attention to 'points' in a forum. If points become a factor, the content can go south..

                        • 9. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                          jormond

                          Agreed Mike. I think that is what John is referring to. ( addressing the general audience, not you specifically Mike...I enjoy your posts ) If the point system is designed to be some indication of credibility, it's kind of broken. Some things will leap you up a lot of points. But I see some responses from people that are at a level "6" in the points, but their responses are not "credible". No offense to anyone. I don't mind people posting. It's the purpose of the forum. But then you have people like Wim and John, and yourself ( and many others ) also at a level "6", who post regularly and are most helpful...and yet I see many people thinking that the 2 kinds of posts are the same. It's a little silly.

                           

                          Hypothetically, if I asked 3000 questions that are answered clearly in the FM help, I would be as "credible" as many of the long time developers here. That is really a case for why the point systems are ridiculous. I'm not sure who came up with them, and why they found their way into forums. An admin assigned title ( based on experience and posts and helpful comments, etc ) would lend more credibility to the credibility.

                           

                          I would personally be all for dropping ( or hiding ) the ranking system on this site...or maybe tweaking it so that certain types of posts don't count toward the points ( no points for questions or thread starts, points for participation in threads instead of individual posts, or a point scale that is not necessarily 1 post =1 point and more like 1 post = 1 point / 5 posts = 2 points etc ) . It serves little to help the community, in my opinion.

                          • 10. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                            SteveMartino

                            I've never really noticed the points or gave them much credence.  I think after being on these 4 (now 3) forums for a little over 3 years, you kind of know who's who.

                            I've received much help from everyone on the forums.

                            If a less experienced user/developer gives advice, rest assured usually a more experienced developer will post a better/more efficient way. I love the back and forth of bright minds and ideas. I wouldn't look at 2 answers to a question and pic one based on a persons ranking.

                            I also never knew of a ranking system and really wouldn't care.  I mean after all, Eos still rates himself 'intermediate' (maybe that's the other forum), and PhilModJunk I think has over 75000 posts, far ahead of probably the next top 3 posters combined-just 2 of the many super experienced developers at the top of their game. Is Comment even a real person, or just a super FileMaker machine (just kidding Mike), Wim knows too much for one person (lol), BruceR, Josh, Raybaudi...and on and on....And oh yeah, LaRetta's cat pic still scares me....especially after I found out it was a real cat and not something created on photo shop.

                            There's another forum I visit for my profession (HVAC) where points really matter, where one person will answer a post, and 15 people just respond with "+1", without adding any content, just to get the points.

                             

                            Thanks to all that help...whether you help me directly, or I get to learn from you helping others, posting sample scripts/DB's, etc.  I visit everyday and read practically every new post/response, it really helps the newbs, especially when I get those 'aha' moments.

                             

                            P.S.  Go over to stackoverflow as a newbie.  Many restrictions based on points for posting responding, uploading, etc. And if you question is rated negative (despite their assertion that the place is for newbies too) it gets buried pretty quick with no chance for an answer)

                            • 11. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                              Benjamin Fehr

                              well, I can just write some crap and nonsense here to earn some points, or even cold randomly "Like" thousands of various posts in order to earn my next "Boy Scout Medal".

                              This isn't a serious system and says absolutely nothing about skills and contributions to the FMI community.

                              The only ranking that means anything to me is the one of TSGal AND PhilModJunk!

                               

                              • 12. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                                Mike_Mitchell

                                Actually, Josh, I tend to agree. Here's why: The point system is based on two things, participation and demonstrated competence.  You get points because you participate a lot, and you get points because people like and mark your answers as correct and because you have certifications.

                                 

                                So when you see a ranking, it's not necessarily a measure of competence (although the points system is weighted that way). It could be a measure of someone with too much time on his hands.  

                                • 13. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                                  richardsrussell

                                  And if Beverly, one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on the planet with regard to FMP, is still learning things, that sets an admirable standard for the rest of us to aspire to. A community, indeed!

                                  • 14. Re: Do we think points leaping is fair?
                                    richardsrussell

                                    Hey, did anyone see that episode of South Park where the lads' well-developed characters in World of Warcraft get wiped out by some super warrior, and their brand-new characters spend the entire summer killing squirrels in the forest (at 2 points apiece) just to build up enuf XP to seek him out again and take their revenge? Way too true to life!

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