1 2 Previous Next 17 Replies Latest reply on Jan 6, 2016 7:20 AM by sreese

    Undo in script?

      Probably a very simple question but I can't seem to find a way to undo some typo or accidental move or even unwanted deletion of a script step in FM 14.


      I'm using a Mac and CMD-Z does nothing. Don't see anything on the Edit menu.


      The only thing that "works" is to stop everything and abandon the script and start it up again.


      There must be a better way to "undo".


      Also, un-dos should be nested so I should be able to un-do a stack of changes, right?


      What am I missing?




      - m

        • 1. Re: Undo in script?

          Hi. There is no way to undo what mistake you've made in the script workspace. It is a feature that has been asked for many o' times.


          You can always REVERT the script back to the previous save state. Right-click on its name in the scripts list and choose "revert". That will take it back to the last save and get rid of any script steps you added since then.

          • 2. Re: Undo in script?

            Wow, seriously?


            A multi-hundred dollar "development tool" can't even undo a single goof? Exiting the script where you could have made other changes you want to keep is not a solution. Not even a workaround since you'd have to reapply all the work you did up to the point where you made the goof.


            This issue, and the fact there isn't even a hint of refactoring, not even "Find" in a script, keeps me from doing much serious with FMP. Compared to a real programmer's IDE, even the new "Script Workspace" is very primitive to the point of barely being usable -- again compared to real developer tools.


            I can't understand why a "14" version product is SO basic.


            Isn't a "user goal" being able to "Find stuff" in "code"?


            Who thinks up these features but doesn't include ones just about everyone needs? Every lowly text editor in the word has find/replace. The free TextWrangler has "Find All" with RegEx "grep" too.


            I do not get it.




            Appreciate your reply.


            - m

            • 3. Re: Undo in script?
              I can't understand why a "14" version product is SO basic.


              Blame the tools, blame the tools.

              • 4. Re: Undo in script?

                I guess I don’t really find it an issue. I save after every couple of steps, and in the case of something catastrophic, I simply revert the script.


                It isn’t a text editor, so one can’t do the same. People who’ve been developing for many years seem to do serious work with it and its working out just fine. If you start doing serious work with it, you get used to it.


                The new script space is a vast improvement over the original previous version. It gave us great efficiency in writing code. I never select script steps anymore, as I assume most people don’t do. I simply write them out. If I make a mistake, I just select the line again (with arrow keys and spacebar) and rewrite the code.

                • 5. Re: Undo in script?
                  Markus Schneider

                  IMHO, that is *not* an option. 'Undo' is a separate task, has almost nothing to do with save-and-go-back-to-the-last-version


                  • 6. Re: Undo in script?

                    I didn't say it was the perfect solution. Just a possible work-around we have at the moment. I fully agree it would be nice to have an undo and a search (searching can be done with a plugin), but until those features are added, one makes a way to do something.

                    • 7. Re: Undo in script?

                      All I am saying is that a multi-hundred-dollar "development tool" should have AT LEAST the same editing capabilities as a free text editor. IMHO, the script work space is about half baked.


                      It's not reasonable to now have to go spend another $200 or $400 to get a plug-in, albeit a nice one at that, to fill gaping product holes.


                      Thanks for your reply.


                      • 8. Re: Undo in script?

                        morkus wrote:

                        All I am saying is that a multi-hundred-dollar "development tool" should have AT LEAST


                        It sounds like you think that FileMaker is too expensive. It is true that there are a few amazing tools on the market which are free and there are a few good ones which are under $100, but most of the development or database management tools cost even more than FileMaker.  I have quite a few which cost over $300. And I suppose you did not work with things like Adobe InDesign Server which cost $20000 a year and does not have UI.


                        On my experience, FileMaker seems to be too expensive for hobbyists (why my spellchecker keeps changing this to hobbits?) or for small clients who have to buy a few licences. There are free alternatives, but the money you save you will eventually lose on a longer development time and the ecosystem tends to be much smaller. For a developer FM price usualy is not a problem as you will make you money back pretty soon.


                        I agree with Jeremy Brown, there are quite a few developers here and on the other forums who have done amazing things in FileMaker. I saw in my time some very good FileMaker systems, used by very big companies and playing important part in the business. I myself spent 15 years doing FileMaker development mostly. I think, coming to a FIleMaker forum and claiming you can not do any serious work in FileMaker is fairly offensive, especially as you initially asked for help and got your answers, although not the ones you expected.


                        When you say FileMaker should have AT LEAST something, it sounds it has nothing at all. Look at the full list of FileMaker features in you spare time (it is long enough). There are hundreds of thousands people on this forum, a lot of them using FileMaker as their main tool for work. Do you think they are all stupid?

                        • 9. Re: Undo in script?

                          First off, this forum is hands down the best support forum I've ever seen. It's one of the best things about FM and is truly amazing. 5 stars.


                          Secondly, sorry if I ruffled any feathers. Yes, FM is an amazing product with lots of features. I've routinely said that too. No offense meant toward FM or any users. I use it every day and love it for what it does. Very easy and powerful, up to a point.


                          Additionally, I wasn't implying that FMP was too "expensive"; rather, just that it didn't have some basic features any professional software development product should, again, IMHO, have. But, yes, based on the cost, I expected basic search and replace, undo, etc. features. To me, a "workaround" is not having to export the database report and then using TextWrangler to do a RegEx grep "FindAll" instead of being able to do code search/replace in FMP (as in other professional products).


                          My other point was about 'user goals', as described in Alan Cooper's (father of Visual Basic) book "About Face". A basic user goal would be to have search and replace.Missing in FMP. Another user goal is to be able to undo a mistake without abandoning work. Missing in FMP.


                          However when a product fails to meet basic user goals but just keeps adding "features", it, in my view, fails to be as useful as it could be.  (Alan Cooper's other book: "The inmates are running the Asylum" is also a fascinating read.)


                          What I guess I failed to point out in my posting above is that it's my serious "like" for FMP - in that I use it every day - for it to have basic editing features. If I didn't like FMP (a lot) or didn't use it (a lot), I wouldn't bother to post.


                          So, my basic point isn't that FMP doesn't have features. Yes, it has plenty of those. Just not some of the features that some regular developers would expect in a version 1.0 product (search and replace, ...).


                          Do these missing features  mean you can't do serious work in FMP? Of course not. I was really speaking for myself and not generalizing when I said I don't use FM for production work.


                          Sorry if I made that points in any way that seemed offensive.




                          - m


                          P.S. As a professional software developer, I spend thousands of dollars on software tools. XML tools, profiling tools, Oracle DB server, etc. All much more expensive than FM.

                          • 10. Re: Undo in script?

                            Not sure I understood.


                            So, are you saying you would not expect to be able to have CMD-Z/CNTRL-Z undo one or more of your last typed in commands or lines of code or were you saying you're cool without having a basic undo feature?




                            - m

                            • 11. Re: Undo in script?
                              Markus Schneider

                              would love to have undos/redos. In V14 with that IMHO not finished scriptworkspace, where the window still moves, one adds accidentaly a step at the wrong place...


                              FM14 eats that much memory (compared to 11), that some benefits would be more than just cool...

                              • 12. Re: Undo in script?

                                Cool, thanks for your reply.


                                That accidental script step moving issue kept getting me yesterday in a script with less than 100 lines. What a pain. No way to just undo and have the script step go back to the last location.


                                And, if I didn't recently save the script (hard to remember to save as a workaround when virtually every product has "undo"), or remember exactly where that line of code went, I had to abandon the entire script and start over (the "workaround").


                                Thanks again,


                                - m

                                • 13. Re: Undo in script?
                                  So, are you saying you would not expect to be able to have CMD-Z/CNTRL-Z undo one or more of your last typed in commands or lines of code or were you saying you're cool without having a basic undo feature?


                                  OK, I might have sounded a bit harsh, sorry. There are quite a few threads here with people saying FileMaker is rubbish, often because a particular feature is missing. In my defence, I was branded as a FileMaker fanboy before in this forum.


                                  I agree there are limitations and there are missing features in FileMaker. Undos in Script Workspace would be great and I am sure they will come at some point. I am not cool not having them, but I just get on with my job. My point is, I will build a system with or without this feature, may be it will be faster to deliver if I have it, but it will not change my life. It might save my client $100 but not thousands.


                                  Any major software is full of missing features. Don't get me started on Adobe, I am not sure this forum has enough space. I spend a long time working with SQL Server 2005. This version did not have auto-complete in SQL Studio. You could insert any variable in xQuery xml as long as it is not of xml type, and half of the standard xQuery/XPath functions were not supported( and a lot of them still aren't) . It did get better in the following releases, but we are talking about very expensive software from a vendor much bigger than FileMaker.


                                  Search in text is fairly straight forward to implement, that's why all free text editors have it. FileMaker also has it - it can search and replace text in the fields. Search in FIleMaker script is harder to implement as Script Steps consist of a number of linked objects.


                                  You mentioned refactoring: you only need to change field name/script name once and FileMaker will update it for you throughout the whole database. If you change a column name in SQL Server database (and don't get shot after by your dba) you would need search and replace all Stored Procedures, triggers and probably something else.

                                  • 14. Re: Undo in script?

                                    Thanks for your follow up. No worries.


                                    FileMaker pro is definitely NOT rubbish. It's actually quite amazing. Unlike most of my other apps, I love it. I'm hooked. FMP kept me from having to write Java/Swing applications ... entirely - though for sever stuff, I usually still opt for Java/MySQL or Oracle/some persistence framework, etc. Using MySQL is free so I totally avoid the expense of FMS.


                                    Not having search/replace (undo, etc.) might have been OK in FMP version 1 or maybe version 2, but in .... version 14? For a professional tool, and its associated cost, basic search/replace is a professional expectation. Searching a linked list, as I'm sure you know from your vast experience you listed above, is not difficult.


                                    Thanks again for your follow up.


                                    Hopefully in 15 there will be some exciting usability touches, not just "new features".


                                    -- m


                                    P.S. Your comment about linked objects gets to another of my wishes for FMP: an object oriented re-write. Not holding my breath on this one and the 90s style coding methodology doesn't keep me from using/loving FMP.

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