1 2 3 Previous Next 44 Replies Latest reply on May 10, 2016 3:37 PM by electon

    "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally

      I have a container field using open storage for some PDFs.

       

      Now, I'm thinking that "open storage" means that storage is available to other clients, like PDF programs. As in "Open".

       

      The problem is that if I open a PDF externally to FM using another program, and modify it, FileMaker then refuses to show that field's contents and just gives me this "Tampered with" message in the container file window. If I try to "Reload" the container field, it's then blank.

       

      Nice.

       

      The only thing I've found that 'works' is to reload the file like it was never added.

       

      Am I missing something? I don't see any way to tell FileMaker: "Hey, this really is open storage so other programs might access this file....it's 'OK'".

       

      TIA

       

      - m

        • 1. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
          RickWhitelaw

          Container files should never be touched by anything but FileMaker. This doesn't solve your issue I know.

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally

            Thanks Rick. At least I wasn't missing something obvious.

             

            However, yes, you're correct. To wit, FileMaker giving up on a file that's in "Open Storage" seems contradictory. I guess what FM means is open storage on the disk, but still only to be used by FM.

             

            If that's correct, it seems that nobody at FM thought about the Mac and Spotlight indexes and how any file in Open Storage would be searchable (a good thing, except in this case).

             

            I'll have to re-think my design and perhaps just skip FileMaker for this project.  Perhaps a DevonThink DB would be better for this project.

             

            Appreciate your reply.

             

            - m

            • 3. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
              RickWhitelaw

              I always thought open storage meant not protected. Not secured. I'll have to read up on the difference.

              • 4. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
                wimdecorte

                morkus wrote:

                 

                I have a container field using open storage for some PDFs.

                 

                Now, I'm thinking that "open storage" means that storage is available to other clients, like PDF programs. As in "Open".

                 

                 

                That's a big faulty assumption.  It's been said many times and emphasized even more, at devcons and in this forum and other forums: externally stored container data should be treated for what they are: live FM data.  NOTHING should touch it except FileMaker.

                 

                The 'remote container' feature is all about streamlining FM, it is NOT a document server feature that lets you work with that container data outside of FM.  The feature is there to make your solution and everything about it (like backups) more efficient and faster.

                • 5. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
                  electon

                  Open Storage means it's not encrypted or protected in any way. As opposed to secure storage.

                  Those files belong to the database and should not be accessed by any other means than filemaker.

                  It's part of setting up the environment that these files are excluded from spotlight, backups and file sharing.

                   

                  You should instead export field contents, edit the file and reinsert it into FileMaker.

                   

                  Another way is to store the file as reference ( only the path to the file is stored ).

                  Then you can double click the icon in the container which should open it in the default application.

                  Edit it, save and you're done. FileMaker will not complain unless the file is missing.

                   

                  Files stored as a reference can be indexed, backed up and shared.

                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
                    wimdecorte

                    morkus wrote:

                     

                    I'll have to re-think my design and perhaps just skip FileMaker for this project. Perhaps a DevonThink DB would be better for this project.

                     

                    If document management is part of your original spec then look at something like SuperContainer from 360Works if you don't want to use just references to the container data.

                     

                    I do not want to sound condescending in any way: you have access to the biggest brains in the FM space here so feel free to check your assumptions before committing to a project.  Hopefully we can help you be successful that way.

                    • 7. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally

                      Good info, but it sounds like there's no perfect solution here. If I just store the reference (not sure how to do this based on options in Storage), then it sounds like I lose the search capability in FM. If I open the file externally to FM with regular Open Storage, then FM says the file is corrupted. Not good.

                       

                      All I want is to be able to edit the files in FM or on the file system and have to tell FileMaker "Hey, don't worry about computing your checksum." (or whatever it's doing to see if the file was modified.)

                       

                      I really shouldn't have to worry/remember about searching in Spotlight and finding a FileMaker "Open File", editing it, and then finding (probably later) that it's "corrupted" in FM due to some arbitrary checksum (non-overridable, apparently) implementation decision by the FM devs.

                       

                      Sigh...

                      • 8. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally

                        Clearly I've missed those postings and I can't disagree with the way it's working, just that it is a non-starter for this project or any project where the files need to be usable in the file system (using, in this case, the built-in Mac Spotlight index) without corrupting fields in the FM database.

                         

                        Me, having to maintain a mental model so I comply with FM's internal implementation decisions means I can't use (open/modify) what Spotlight finds. If I search for some text in Spotlight (on the mac) and it finds a file, why should I need to keep a list of "OK files to open" (mentally, at least)?

                         

                        FM -> GIVE ME THE OPTION (the user, the person who needs to get work done, the user who doesn't want to re-insert data into the container file, the ...) to work with my data as I want, not in the arbitrary what the FM devs "decided".  Let me turn off your checksum check or whatever the heck you're doing to "determine" my data is "corrupted" (another bad message also since the data was not corrupted, either).

                         

                        (And, No, I'm not going to post this as a formal FM suggestion since I have a zero success rate getting anything fixed/implemented despite many attempts.)

                         

                        - m

                        • 9. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
                          user19752

                          What do you mean "lose the search capability in FM" ?

                          You can't search container field, regardless of storing contents or reference.

                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
                            electon

                            morkus wrote:

                            Let me turn off your checksum check or whatever the heck you're doing to "determine" my data is "corrupted" (another bad message also since the data was not corrupted, either).

                            Who's going to keep your mental data of "the file hasn't been corrupted" for the other users? Maybe it has.

                            FileMaker is database centric. It's not a document management / editing / syncing product.

                            Altho with careful preparation you could make it into one but you'll need to obey the rules.

                            I've yet to see an SQL database where you can directly edit the files on disk. Maybe it's possible.

                             

                            I'm not saying it's perfect but it's the way it is and I can see the logic behind it. Data Integrity.

                             

                            morkus wrote:

                             

                            All I want is to be able to edit the files in FM or on the file system and have to tell FileMaker "Hey, don't worry about computing your checksum." (or whatever it's doing to see if the file was modified.)

                             

                            I really shouldn't have to worry/remember about searching in Spotlight and finding a FileMaker "Open File", editing it, and then finding (probably later) that it's "corrupted" in FM due to some arbitrary checksum (non-overridable, apparently) implementation decision by the FM devs.

                            You can't edit files in FM other than FileMaker files for same reason you can't open a FM file in excel and edit it there.

                            As soon as you store the file in a database it belongs to the database. Just because there is "open storage" doesn't mean its for editing.

                            Only the fact that you can edit means you can also delete it. Then you're out of luck.

                            You have the option to store as a reference and then manage the integrity on your own within your "mental map".

                             

                            And you shouldn't have to worry about...

                            What you should worry about is try and understand how it works and how to best approach it.

                            You set up your system in such a way that you don't index, backup or have access to modify those files directly.

                            • 11. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally
                              wimdecorte

                              morkus wrote:

                               

                               

                              FM -> GIVE ME THE OPTION (the user, the person who needs to get work done, the user who doesn't want to re-insert data into the container file, the ...) to work with my data as I want, not in the arbitrary what the FM devs "decided".

                               

                              There is nothing arbitrary about it.  I think you are confusing database operation with solution functionality.  As mentioned before; the FM database is NOT a document management system.  That is functionality that you have to build.

                               

                              Pretty much all document management systems work on the principle of checking in and out documents from their repository.  You can certainly build that in FM...

                              • 12. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally

                                I had forgotten, or didn't realize that files in container fields weren't searchable, natively, in the first place.


                                Since I had put OCR-ed files in those fields, I expected to be able to search them within FIleMaker at least as well as I could do with a built-in tool like "Preview" on the mac.

                                 

                                This lack of functionality disqualifies this small personal project for FM.

                                 

                                Container field searching is user goal 1, within or outside FM.

                                 

                                Thanks for your replies.

                                 

                                -m

                                 

                                P.S. Maybe I was a little confused. Sorry about previous reply to the contrary.

                                • 13. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally

                                  FM is not a match for me for this project. It does not match my "user goals" for this project.

                                   

                                  If Spotlight can find it, I should be able to open it. Period. Without "corrupting" the FM field that I only find ... later and then wonder what the heck went wrong.

                                   

                                  I've moved this project into Devonthinnk where I can search, the main goal, the files.

                                   

                                  I had confused others on the forum bringing up Devonthink as meaning I was trying to create a Document Management System. No. Just trying to (possibly) search files externally to the program without the program thinking the file was then "corrupted".

                                   

                                  User Goal (Me, the User): Search for files without needing to maintain a list (or separate database) of which files cannot be opened externally, say with a Spotlight search, without "corrupting" the database field. This is exactly what the Mac gives you -- ENTIRE HARD DISK SEARCH. Built in.

                                   

                                  Point: Normally, I'd just search within FileMaker, but I don't want to, or shouldn't "need to" worry about opening files externally if Spotlight finds them during another search.

                                   

                                  And, no, the reported "Corrupted files" weren't corrupted. I checked in the "Open File" storage area.

                                   

                                  It's a "FileMaker Thing".

                                   

                                  - m

                                  • 14. Re: "Open Storage" Container file "Tampered with" after opening externally

                                    You're right!

                                     

                                    Since I was putting OCR-ed PDFs into the container fields and thought FM would be able to search them since (free) preview can do it.

                                     

                                    Hmmmm

                                     

                                    Wow, this really disqualifies FM for this project.

                                     

                                    Who wouldn't want to search PDFs natively?

                                     

                                    Thanks.

                                     

                                    - m

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