1 2 Previous Next 21 Replies Latest reply on Jul 2, 2016 11:19 AM by RussW

    Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model

    RussW

      I'm a moderately experienced FMP coder but very new to using FMP Server let alone a remote server halfway across the country.

       

      My code has been working flawlessly for a couple years. Ever since I moved the data to a hosting service, I've had inconsistent behavior with the application (UI) side locking up, crashing, finding errors where there never were any (e.g. Data Field is no modifiable when it is).

       

      It occurred to me that when I first converted the solution from a single file to the data separation model, I never deleted all of the relationships in the graph in the data file. It never seemed to matter. But I'm wondering if that could be the cause of my problems now. Are the two conflicting?

       

      I'm hesitant to just erase the entire graph in the data file without some confirmation from someone who knows more than me. I have no calculation fields in any TO that require a relationship to another TO. As far as I know, that would be the only reason to keep the relationships in the data file.

       

      My basic question is really: Can the two relationship graphs cause confusion when the "logic" is trying to come up with a result?

        • 1. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
          Johan Hedman

          I strongly recommend you to buy the analys tool called Base Elements (BaseElements | Goya Pty Ltd  Export your Database Design Report into XML and import into Base Elements. It will tell you what Unreferenced items you have in your solution so that you can delete those without wondering if the are in use or not. It will also tell you if you have Error, Warning and places where you can optimise your solution better for better Performance. 

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
            coherentkris

            "Can the two relationship graphs cause confusion when the "logic" is trying to come up with a result?"

            No.

            Relationships on the graph are completely local and isolated to the file they are in so this is probably not the cause of what you are experiencing.

            • 3. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
              Mike_Mitchell

              coherentkris wrote:

               

              "Can the two relationship graphs cause confusion when the "logic" is trying to come up with a result?"

              No.

              Relationships on the graph are completely local and isolated to the file they are in so this is probably not the cause of what you are experiencing.

               

              With the exception that referential integrity (cascading deletes) are enforced regardless. If you have them set up in, say, the interface file but not they data file, they will fire, and vice versa.

              • 4. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                Stigge

                i done the same.. moving from local files to server files..

                One thing that always messing things up is when you in scripts point to a file. The script doesnt know that you moved it to a server, and might need adjustments to point to the server file instead. same if you hardcoded links to your local PC, it needs to relink them properly..

                 

                Dont know how your solution look, but it might be something to consider =)

                • 5. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                  Mike_Mitchell

                  You haven't told us a lot about your solution, so it's hard to determine where the problem might be originating. For example, where is the UI file? Local or on the server? How did you upload the file(s) to the server?

                   

                  "Field not modifiable" has many possible causes. Is it a calculation field echoed into the UI file? Have you double-checked the access privileges in both files to make sure that not only does the user have permissions to perform whatever action is creating the error, but that the files themselves have the necessary permissions? (Ex: The "fmsadmin" and "fmsuser" roles in the OS don't create a problem when held locally, but very well might when the file is hosted.) What about the layout on which the operation is being performed?

                   

                  Locking up can be a symptom of a communication problem. Was this solution ever hosted before? What kind of network are we dealing with here? Is there a match between the version of FileMaker client and FMS?

                   

                  We really need more information before we can give you a good answer.

                  • 6. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                    RussW

                    Thanks everyone. Knowing that the relationships are isolated to the file that they are in answers most of my questions. At least I now know where not to look.

                     

                    The solution is hosted at FMPHost.com, both the UI and the Data files. Links from the UI to the Datafile are intact. Sometimes I RDP into one of their remote apps to access the files and sometimes I access them from my local installation of FMP (Remote Host). Everything is Version 14 and all updates have been made in all involved machines. Obviously, when I run from my local installation things are very slow, but it seems to be a bit more reliable than using RDP to one of their remote apps.

                     

                    The hosting guys (by the way, they're support is instant and very reliable but they don't comment on coding) say that this is not a connection problem. That's hard for me to accept when running on my LAN it all worked fine but over the WAN it's been a series of nightmarish crashes and late night data restoration.

                     

                    I'm also slowly converting as much as I can to PSoS which I'm hoping will reduce transfer of data and reduce risk of data loss while being able to run on a local installation at acceptable speed. But that doesn't give me great comfort. Even if it works, I end up trading reliability for buying licenses for multiple PCs for occasional users and maintaining all those PCs which aren't collocated.

                    • 7. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                      Mike_Mitchell

                      If I understand you correctly, you're accessing the FileMaker database directly through Remote Desktop? If so, then this is the likely cause of your situation.

                       

                      Never, never, ever, under any circumstances, try to access a FileMaker database through the operating system while it's being hosted by FileMaker server. You will corrupt your database eventually.

                       

                      (I hope I wasn't unclear.)  

                      • 8. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                        RussW

                        Mike:

                        "You will corrupt your database eventually"

                        This is what happened yesterday. My database got really messed up. Links were broken in the relationship graph and even one TO was replaced with another kind of randomly. The raw data seems to be intact but I am reconstructing the relationships now.

                         

                        I'm not sure I totally understand what you're saying. I often have need to access the raw data by going into the data file. Are you saying I should never do this when the data is on a server? Or that I just shouldn't access using RDP?

                        • 9. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                          coherentkris

                          You should not access/open a file using RDP.

                          Now that you have evidence of corruption you know why that's not a good practice.

                          Simple repairing the issues with the files are NOT going to correct the problems with the file.

                          The best practice is to restore from a known uncorrupted backup.

                          Second best option is to completely rebuild the suspsect damaged files.

                          Other options are to run the various recovery options tht you will find as you research how to recover from corruption and try them.. just remember that the two options above are the only guaranteed ways to restore.

                          • 10. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                            Mike_Mitchell

                            Only access the file via Open Remote. Never via the OS.

                            • 11. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                              RussW

                              Hmm... Maybe I'm stating this wrong since the Remote App is a feature sold by the hosting service. When I RDP, I am attaching to a Virtual Machine running FMPro Advanced desktop. And then from that application I am opening up the actual FMP files. IS this not OK?

                              • 12. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                                Mike_Mitchell

                                Remote App is not Remote Desktop. They are different applications. RDP allows you to log into the server itself, to view the OS, files, applications, etc. Remote App is more like running a Citrix account, where you log into a copy of FileMaker running on the server.

                                 

                                How are you accessing the file? Via Open Remote from inside the FileMaker client?

                                • 13. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                                  RussW

                                  Not sure I know. I use Windows RDP to connect to a "machine" in Atlanta that is running the desktop application of FMP. I then have to use my username and password to open up the launch window. I see a only the files I am allowed to use as determined by my Remote App session username) From their, I just click on the icon of the file I want.  The tab says "Hosts", so I am assuming I do attach via Open Remote.

                                  • 14. Re: Relationship Graphs in Data Separation Model
                                    Mike_Mitchell

                                    Yes, that's through Open Remote.

                                     

                                    How else would you open the file normally? What's different? Just via Open Remote locally?

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