10 Replies Latest reply on Sep 2, 2016 5:25 PM by RolfNoyer

    Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?

    RolfNoyer

      I just updated to FileMaker 15 Pro Advanced after several years using version 13.

       

      The current version appears to no longer respect or understand the Open Type font feature “mkmk”. This is the feature that ensures that diacritic marks (accents) are properly placed with respect to other diacritic marks on a character. For example if you have [a] with a macron (long mark) on top and an accent on top of that, any font with the "mkmk" feature correctly implemented will properly place the accent above the other mark and not diretctly on top of it.

       

      I designed many fonts especially so that they would work properly with File Maker 13, and all they fonts all worked fine before, but version 15 acts as if the mkmk feature is now being completely ignored. The on-screen display has been ruined.

       

      What happened?

       

      I have also noticed that  text in the  google font “Noto Nastaliq Urdu” is entirely garbled on screen now, but it looked perfect before in File Maker 13.

       

      Is there any way to solve this problem? This may seem like a trivial issue, but to me it is extremely important, since my database contains a great deal of information in many languages that require proper font support.

       

      Any help would be greatly appreciated.

        • 1. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
          Johan Hedman

          FileMaker have done a lot to make your layouts for both FileMaker Pro and FileMaker WebDirect users. Some of the things like your font could not work on both parts, so Open Font. FileMaker wrote some information about it here

          FileMaker Pro 7 and later support only TrueType fonts on the Windows platform | FileMaker

          • 2. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
            RolfNoyer

            All the fonts I have *are* true type fonts, they have the extension .ttf.

             

            Can you explain what you mean better?

             

            As I stated in my report, all the fonts I have worked properly in FM version 13. They were not then any different from what they are now.

             

            This has nothing to do with Windows and nothing to do with FM version 7 or previous (none of which I have ever owned) as the article you directed me to talks about. I am not even running Windows on my machine which is  a Mac.

             

            I tried generating and .otf font file and using that instead and it has the same behavior as the .ttf version.

             

            I do not understand what you mean to tell me or how you mean to help.

            • 3. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
              RolfNoyer

              Let me try to make myself clearer in the hope that maybe you can answer my question better.

               

              Is it a fact that there has been a known change in the functionality of FM between versions 13 and 15 (when running on a Mac with the same OS and hardware) in respect to the way in which fonts are displayed on screen that could have led to a sudden decline in functionality as I showed in the images I posted?

               

              If so, what was the change precisely?

              • 5. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
                RolfNoyer

                I apologize. I posted this question also in the “report a problem” forum and there I included the image I mentioned.

                 

                I have appended the image to this post.

                 

                I am not sure what you mean by “what version of Adobe” am I running. I am not running any software by Adobe that is relevant to FileMaker.

                 

                Some of the fonts which no longer work are ones which I created or modified using the font creation software FontForge.

                 

                Others, like Noto Nastaliq Urdu, are available as freeware online.

                 

                The fonts I am talking about are true type fonts with the extension .ttf in their file name.  They are not .otf fonts. Nevertheless these fonts make use of the so-called “open type features” “mark” and “mkmk” to position diacritics relative to base characters.

                 

                It  does not seem to be the case that none of the “open type” features are supported. Specifically, “calt" (contextual alternates) works properly both when I run FM 13 and when I run FM 15.  "Liga" (which makes ligatures of adjacent characters) works correctly in both versions.

                 

                If I create a .ttf font with no open type features at all, it does not have "calt" in it and no contextual alternates appear on screen, but when I do add “calt” to the font, the contextual alternates do appear (in both FM 13 and FM15) ; from this I conclude that "calt" is an “open type feature”, and because FM 13 and FM 15 both behave correctly with respect to "calt", I conclude that FM does support some of the “open type feature" capabilities of .ttf fonts.

                 

                So what is puzzling is that  FM 15 does not appear to  correctly use the features "mark" and "mkmk" (and probably also some other features  besides these that are needed for Noto Nastaliq Urdu). But FM 13 did respect these fetaures and I had no problems in FM 13.

                 

                Since normally one assumes that an “upgrade” will have all the capablities of earlier versions it came as a surprise to me that something that worked fine in FM 13 suddenly stopped working in FM 15.

                 

                Now, either this is a problem which can eventually be fixed somehow, or it is a known and planned downgrading of the capabilities of FileMaker with respect to its graphical rendering engine.

                 

                I need to know the answer to this so that I can decide what version is suitable for my project, and, ultimately, whether I can continue to use FileMaker at all.

                 

                The two new links you provided were unfortunately not helpful.

                 

                I am aware of the bug that has been reported that replaces fonts inexplicably with a .tmp font under inexplicable circumstances. But this is not the same problem. The fonts are not being replaced with anything else; it is simply that some of their graphical rendering features appear to be inoperative in FM 15, when they were operative in FM 13.

                 

                The symbol fonts discussed in the second link are also of no relevance to this issue as far as I can tell.

                 

                Thank you for your attention to my concern.

                FM15 Open Type Problems.png

                • 6. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
                  Johan Hedman

                  Is all your own fonts importer to users Font library?

                   

                  I am not familiar with Urdi and that kind of language so I have not tested what you are experience.

                   

                  My my problems disappeared when I changed to a font that FileMaker say is web safe. There has not been any information from FMI what fonts that's web safe, but by looking at web resources my guess is that your own created fonts are not

                  • 7. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
                    CamelCase_data

                    RolfNoyer - would you be able to make a simple sample file, also including the font file, available for testing?

                     

                    Have you been able to test in FileMaker Pro 14?

                     

                    I think johanhedman's question about Adobe may refer to an issue where Adobe products (I can't remember if it's only/mainly Acrobat Reader) cause conflicts with FileMaker's font handling (the actual font gets replaced with an unreadable .tmp font).

                     

                    From your description of the issue, it does seem likely to me that mkmk support may have been "forgotten" whenthe changes in layout rendering between FileMaker 13 and 15 were done.

                    • 8. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
                      RolfNoyer

                      I’d be happy to provide whatever would be helpful for testing, just give me a little time (a day) to put it together.

                       

                      Would I then just attach the relevant files to a forum post?

                       

                      I don’t have FM 14 — I went directly from FM 13 to FM 15.I don’t actually know how FM 14 would work.

                       

                      If I could be sure that FM will support "mark" and "mkmk" — at least in the next version or in a patch of the existing version — I would be happy to continue to use FM 13 until then, since it has almost all the capabilities I need.

                       

                      I was pleased with some of the new features of FM 15, but they were not crucial for my purposes.

                       

                      Thank you for your help.

                      • 9. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
                        CamelCase_data

                        It would be great if you could do that sample file. I'll be able to test in FileMaker Pro 14 - whether it works there or not may provide some clue to the cause of the issue.

                        • 10. Re: Open Type mkmk feature no longer supported in FileMaker 15?
                          RolfNoyer

                          David:

                           

                          This discussion is also going on in another thread I started in the Report A Problem forum.

                           

                          I posted the test database I prepared (along with the fonts) in that forum:

                           

                          Re: Open type font features “mark” and “mkmk” no longer supported in FM 15?

                           

                          Hopefully this will make it as easy as possible to see what is going on and when the defect was introduced into FM.

                           

                          Thanks for your help.