1 2 Previous Next 25 Replies Latest reply on Oct 19, 2016 9:06 AM by monkeybreadsoftware

    Windows 10 Automatic Reboots

    alangodfrey

      I have searched the forum for 'Windows 10 Automatic Reboot' and nothing recent was returned.

      If anyone is dithering about changing from Windows to iOS I think Microsoft have just given them the impetus they require.  Please treat all statements as prefaced with AFAIK (after a lot of web searching).

       

      Windows 10 will automatically update itself.  You do have a choice (well, Hobson's Choice): let updates run, or turn updates off completely, and that isn't really a choice.  There is no option to decline some driver updates, for example, but most important of all:

      - it will install all updates automatically

      - it will reboot automatically if a reboot is required

      - the reboot will override any 'Save...' warnings - so if you have unsaved documents, or are running processes or are hosting a Filemaker file - it will crash the files, lose unsaved data, and maybe worse.

      - even FM files with a script to prevent accidental closure will be crashed.

      - (let's not bother with the scenario where you are about to give that Very Important Presentation, and your Windows PC decides to update and restart. "Go chat amongst yourselves for an hour or so, please.  Drinks are on the house.")

       

      There is false hope in two Windows 'features':

      - in Group Policy you can enable the option for 'No automatic restart if a reboot is required after update'.  Windows ignores it(self).

      - Recently an 'Active Hours' feature was added.  This lets you set times of the day when the workstation is usually active.  It is useless.  It simply delays when the disaster will happen until you say are not 'at work'.  In order to at least actually make the disaster happen during normal working hours (as opposed to 03:00) I tried setting the Active Hours to be from 17:00 through to 08:00, but it would not accept that, presumably because the 'End time' was before the 'Start time'.  Anyway: it is useless.  Even worse than useless - at least it you happen to be at the screen when the reboot is threatened you may be able to save or close nicely, but if it is purposely scheduled to happen when you are away, then...

       

      So, bottom line, as I see it (and I sincerely hope I am wrong):

      - no-one should host a small-office Filemaker solution on a Windows 10 computer.  The chances of it being toasted are too great.

      - ditto any other files or processes that you run on that workstation..  (Yeah: I backed up and re-read that, and it still seems odd to me that as well as worrying about data loss or corruption through an occasional power-cut, which at least I can protect myself from with a cheap UPS, I now have the OS itself to contend with.  Seems counter-productive.)

       

      I have tried several other web-sourced solutions, and all have ultimately failed so far - they have either eventually been declared in the thread as failing, just didn't work, or Microsoft over-writes the solution with the next update so it then stops working.

       

      This is the latest suggestion I have seen.  I have recently installed it on a few test machines, so only time will tell if it manages to beat sense into Windows, of if it fails, or it too gets over-written.

      How to permanently stop Windows 10 reboots after installing updates

       

      I would be happy to accept that the common good is served best by everyone having the latest security updates.  However the current Windows imposition is a disaster.  I would be happy to accept the Windows 7 option to 'Download and allow me to choose when to update'; I would even be happy to accept a caveat to that: 'These must be installed by [30 days away, say]'

       

      Hopefully I will be avalanched with smart people telling me I've got it all wrong.  Meantime, if you're hosting on a Windows 10 PC, make sure you have lots of frequent backups available.

        • 1. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
          kurt.bleicken

          Thank you. I wondered what was going on there.

          • 2. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
            flukey

            I have to agree with you wholeheartedly.  I suffered through this three times within the last two weeks on three different computers in our office. 

             

            Around 10:30AM one morning I was working on several documents on my personal laptop when the machine suddenly starting shutting down, installing new updates and restarting, without any warning that this was about to happen.  There was a message about 5 minutes earlier saying that there were updates that needed to be installed, with an option to click a button to say "Install Later".   Well apparently later meant "OK, I'll wait a while but I am going to do this at the most inconvenient time".  It took over 45 minutes to complete the update, all the time with me there waiting since I had been working on a critical document that was needed urgently.  My computer has been running slower since that update.

             

            Two days before that another co-worker's computer suddenly starting to install updates and rebooted.  When it was all done his email file was trashed and he has still not been able to fully recover all of his data.

             

            On Thursday our bookkeeper's computer suddenly starting installing updates and locked her out of the quickbooks session that she was currently in.

             

            This policy of Microsoft's is really idiotic and breaks every IT department's policy of managing what happens on their computers, and also the time honored principal of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".  When one has a computer system set up and stable to the point where you are happy with it, the last thing you want is someone randomly installing software updates that might destabilize your system.  Add to that that no one knows if there are bugs in the updates that would cause the update to be unacceptable to some.  While I agree that it is generally a good idea to have the most recent updates, especially for security vulnerabilities, most IT professionals prefer the updates to be properly vetted by the IT community at large before deploying it within their organisations.  And please do not update my drivers.

            1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
              CICT

              By hosting on Windows 10 I assume you're referring to using FileMaker Pro on a small workgroup, Windows 10 isn't a supported OS for FileMaker Server.

               

              We'd also got fed up launching Windows 10 on Parallels for quick use and then get ground to a halt due to the automatic updates. On all copies we're using a different local group policy to the one you've mentioned, using gpedit.msc to launch the Local Group Policy Editor, expand Local Computer Policy/Computer Configuration/Administrative Templates/Windows Components/Windows Update/Configure Windows Update and change to enabled and select option 2 'Notify for download and notify for install'.

               

              This way we're getting warned about updates, but control when they're downloaded and applied. This only applies to Windows 10 Professional edition but does apply to the Anniversary edition.

               

              Regards

              Andy

              1 of 1 people found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                philmodjunk

                Hosting from filemaker pro for even a small work group has long been a less than ideal set up.

                • 5. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                  alangodfrey

                  Yes, Andy - I'm referring specifically to small workgroups, not FM Server.  Does that gpedit work for you, even on the Anniversary update version?  Does it only work on Professional?  Are you saying it does not work if the option is chosen in Home edition?

                   

                  Phil - we have never had a problem, over hundreds of users, with FM hosted peer-to-peer.  If Filemaker didn't have peer-to-peer we'd be out of business.  The whole cost of the server set up is way, way too expensive for 6 users.  (Actually, with FM arbitrarily reducing the peer-to-peer feature and pushing all the time for 'Server!-Server!-Server!' we'll be out of the FM business very soon, and I believe FM's activity in the SMB sector will all but vanish. I assume that's their plan.)

                   

                  This issue isn't only about using Windows for Filemaker - it applies to any file or process running on a Windows 10 workstation, as flukey's experience exposes.  I took as long as I have to post about it because I couldn't believe that as a matter of design an operating system would deliberately, regularly, crash the users' files.  It's madness.

                  • 6. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                    CICT

                    Hi Alan

                     

                    Yes the local group policy setting is only available for the Professional edition including the anniversary version, not Windows Home.

                     

                    There is a trick you may be able to use within network settings to avoid downloads, similar to if you were connected by a very slow connection or had a restricted data allowance on your Internet connection. I'll try to find a link and post it in the morning.

                     

                    Regards

                    Andy

                    • 7. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                      alangodfrey

                      Andy - in Group Policy Editor these options can be made available in Home edition.  Do you believe any of these will work?  (The one that is Enabled here is ignored by the update procedure.)

                       

                      Thank you.

                       

                      • 8. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                        philmodjunk

                        Phil - we have never had a problem, over hundreds of users, with FM hosted peer-to-peer.

                        I didn't say that it couldn't be done, just that it's less than ideal. It's not just the added features such as schedules and support for PSOS scripts, it's also the fact that you are better protected from file corruption should a client machine crash or have an uncontrolled shut down while Filemaker is open.

                         

                        I truly get the cost issue, but sometimes saving money up front can cost you in the long run as well.

                        • 9. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                          Markus Schneider

                          due to the new licencies model, it may become even more popular. There are use-cases where budget is too low, data can't be stored on servers that belong to foreign companies, maintaining an own server can be also 'too much', etc.

                           

                          I still recommend FileMaker Server - alone the backup is worth it (PSoS as well)

                           

                          FileMaker cloud could be the solution for some, maybe aws (amazon, but with a 'real' virtual server) another

                          • 10. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                            CICT

                            Hi Alan.

                             

                            I'm afraid I"m the wrong person to ask on Wndows Home, I've only every used professional or enterprise editions. My understanding was that Home edition didn't offer this option, but if it is there then there shouldn't be any reason that it wouldn't work.

                             

                            The alternative using network metering II mentioned earlier is demonstrated at: How to Prevent Windows 10 From Automatically Downloading Updates - again I have no experience of this.

                             

                            It will be interesting to see the impact on FileMaker's share of the small organisation market with recent changes. FileMaker Teams, the inability to offer shared hosting and the impact of new competitors such as Zoho.

                             

                            Kind regards

                            Andy

                            • 11. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                              alangodfrey

                              Thanks, Andy - for the sake of 'only change one thing at a time' I'll let my first method run for a while to see if it works, then if it fails I'll reset it and try the method you suggest.  Or I'll try and find another couple of PCs to test in parallel.

                               

                              You are correct that Home edition does not offer the Group Policy snap-in by default, but it can be enabled: https://www.itechtics.com/enable-gpedit-windows-10-home/

                               

                              I can't see how FM's share of the small-office market can do anything but shrink: every change offers more cost and less key features for that market.  There is no inducement for it to grow.  If the customer's business is that size there is no point in telling them how wonderful FM is now for large-budget customers.  We started in the FM market because we met enough customers who were sick of high-cost computer systems not doing what they wanted, and being told by the supplier, "Well, it runs in VW and GM ok, so it must work for your poxy wee outfit."  Some of our customers have very demanding, 50+ user installations.  But numerically far, far more are 5-10 users who (in Filemaker terms) have very undemanding requirements; no iBeacons, no web access even, no need for PSoS, no SQL - they just exploit very fully a set of features that has been available since filtered portals in version 11.  FM Inc seem to be presenting their customers with a Windows Update Choice (to wrangle my comment into the thread's topic) by saying "We used to meet the needs of Small Businesses perfectly. We also make products for The Larger Budget.  Now we're all grown up, you Little People are just an embarrassment, so you'd better buy the Big Boys' Products, as we will stop offering products and pricing to suit your market. Buy Server voluntarily, or we'll keep changing features until you realise what's good for you. Yeah, we could keep supplying the SMB product as well, but we think we can squeeze you all to double your budget instead." Well, not our customers they won't.

                              Offer Server and all its marvellous features for the Big Budget Boys.  But offer a 10-user, peer-to-peer, locally-hosted, £240-a-user solution as well.  That market will either be in addition to the Server market, or as a feeder-market as those 10-user customers will evolve and grow into the Server Market that FMI crave so much.  FM's cost of entry is now way too high (for our market).

                              • 12. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                                schamblee

                                I have never had Windows 10 just to reboot, to install updates.  It has always prompted me before rebooting, and if I don't respond to the prompt (has 60 second count down) then it reboots.    Go to settings, then Windows Update, then you can set "active hours"  which the computer is being used. You can also set a custom restart time.  There are many options that can be set.

                                 

                                I have been hosting on Windows 10 since Windows 10 came out, without issue.

                                 

                                 

                                Let me add another note to this.   Windows 10 let a user update an older PC to Windows 10.   The hardware in the older system are not compatible with Windows 10.   I have seen issue of older Windows 10 machines rebooting because of incompatible drives.     I would bet if you used a new computer you would not see crash issues.

                                • 13. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                                  CICT

                                  I believe the point is that unless you are in front of the PC and hosting using FM Pro (regardless as to whether FMS is the best option, it is still a feature of FMP) it will reboot after 60 seconds and your clients are logged out. Control is with the PC, not the user or administrator.

                                  • 14. Re: Windows 10 Automatic Reboots
                                    CarlSchwarz

                                    Just keep your eye out for the second Tuesday of the month.  Typically that is the only update per month that requires a machine restart. Patch Tuesday - Wikipedia

                                    A nice way to handle updates is to turn off automatic updates and schedule in an update & restart once a month.  If you have Windows 10 Home you may not have the "defer feature updates" option.

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