1 2 3 Previous Next 108 Replies Latest reply on Jan 22, 2017 10:32 AM by JackRodges

    I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!

    jgalt

      FileMaker 15 was a huge disappointment.

       

      I am getting too old for these crappy releases that show no signs of creativity or innovation.

       

      How about you?

       

      FileMaker fanboys need not reply.

        • 1. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
          mikebeargie

          Maybe you missed the roadmap webinar? Oh sorry, I'm not supposed to be replying.

          • 2. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
            skywillmott

            I shouldn't be replying either, but yes some great stuff coming for v16 :-) And oh boy, I had to work on a FileMaker 11 solution yesterday and holy cow has FileMaker come a loooong way since then - was a seriously crippling experience going back to working on that...

            • 3. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
              jormond

              skywillmott - working in 12 is hard, working in 11 is absolutely brutal.  I try to spend a little time in 11 every couple months...just to have a solid perspective to see where FM has elevated too.

              • 4. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                jormond

                I honestly don't think there are too many "fanboys" on these forums. Some passionate developers and users. But I haven't seen anyone rise to the level of "fanboy".

                 

                FM15, while light on feature set, is preparing changes for the future. Many of the changes were setting things up for more future change ( ESS changes, security and SSL changes, developer adds, etc ). I was disappointed in the feature list at first too. But having seen the changes coming, I get it. We are looking at a large shift coming in the platform. I am excited to see it.

                • 5. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                  fmpdude

                  I understand what you're saying. I've documented now 45 things (some jaw-dropping basic, others more developer oriented) that I believe should have been in FMP by now or long ago. I wish FMI would read "About Face" or "The inmates are running the asylum" by Alan Cooper (the "Father" of Visual Basic).


                  What I've learned on this EXCELLENT forum and all the very cool, nice (but passionate) folks here, however, is that FMI has its own way of doing things.

                   

                  So, although I totally understanding where you're coming from (and like others here, I share your frustration), the bottom line is that if you don't like the new version's features, then just don't buy it. Not spending money on FMP is the clearest signal to FMI you can give. I don't see anything coming up in the "Next" release that would make me consider upgrading to 16, either.

                   

                  If FMI reads this form, and they probably do, then they're at least aware that some of us are unhappy with the current feature set. If they don't read this forum, then that might become my "46th" thing on my list.

                   

                  But, ultimately what they do is up to them.

                   

                  I realized many FMP frustrations ago....I can't control FMI. I can only control what I do.

                   

                  BOTTOM LINE: VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET.

                   

                  HOPE THIS HELPS.

                   

                  P.S.

                   

                  FMPA 14.0.6 is a rock solid product and it's extremely useful for the small personal projects I find it suited for.

                   

                  P.P.S. Just added my 45th item FMP should have....a way to RECALL deleted records. I can't count on two hands the number of times I've accidentally clicked Delete and then had to spend an hour messing/finding a backup! 

                   

                  Visual FoxPro had a great approach for deleted records: you don't actually "delete" the records when you delete it... you just "mark it for deletion". Then, you have two ways to view/include recrods (SET DELETED ON/OFF) to toggle if you want to include all records or just records NOT marked for deletion.

                  6 of 6 people found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                    mikebeargie

                    Passionate indeed. Fanboy? Well, sure, why not be a fan of something that allows me to make a living for myself and train others to do the same.

                     

                    For those of you that are wondering what this looks like in the rest of the software world… By comparison, consider Adobe Creative Cloud. They were one of the first major companies to switch over to the subscriber/yearly release model and ditching perpetual disconnected licensing completely. CC is priced at $20 a month per-app. FileMaker AFLT starts at $15/user/month for FileMaker Pro (and gets cheaper with more users).

                     

                    CC is also on a once-per-year “release” cycle. So using something like InDesign as an example, let’s read through the last set of release notes to find some “innovation”

                    https://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/whats-new-in-the-june-2016-release-of-indesign-cc/

                     

                     

                       

                    •   An improved, modern UI

                    Oh how cool!

                     

                       

                    •   GPU performance and animated zoom for Mac

                    So much innovation!

                     

                       

                    •   Ability to set the default language for interactive PDFs; no need to manually set this accessibility requirement in Acrobat.

                    Literally throwing dollars at this as we speak…

                     

                       

                    •   Open assets directly in InDesign when browsing on the Adobe Stock website.

                    Customer for life! Sold! Ding ding ding!!!!

                     

                    In essence, as an InDesign user (and I am one), I do not find ANYTHING on that release “Innovative”. I’m happy to keep paying in my $20 a month as long as they keep fixing bugs and making sure it’s compatible with the latest OSX. I have no expectation of “innovation” because I’m already able to do so much with the product. Is there stuff they could do to make it better? Faster? More integrated? Innovative even? Sure!

                     

                    Frustration or the feeling of “not enough” is understandable. But as FileMaker has transitioned over to a release cycle geared towards annual subscribers, it has done so as gracefully as possible. They’ve:

                     

                    1)      Offered reasonably priced licensing for annual users.

                     

                    2)      Shared what’s on the roadmap for “next”, “in development” and “in consideration”.

                     

                    3)      Hosted webinars to review and explain the roadmap to thousands of developers.

                     

                    4)      Hosted Apple store events to answer questions in person.

                     

                    5)      Openly listened to the community and translated that to their internal staff.

                     

                    6)      Continued to offer legacy licensing and runtime products.

                     

                    This is the new model for for-profit software companies selling their products to the masses. Gone are the less frequent, more pricy, major releases. Here are the more frequent, calendar-planned updates geared towards cheaper subscription model users. “Innovation” will come from ongoing continued usage as the updates accrue over time.

                     

                    If you’re expecting to version-lock yourself on a perpetual license and get a ton of “innovation” out of one release, then you need to look to the past and include everything that was “innovated” from all of the other versions into the one you are buying! Otherwise, hop on board, read the roadmap, and plan for the future as new features roll in. Use it as a good reason to get repeat business for rolling out said features to your client base.

                    3 of 4 people found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                      PeterDoern

                      Great post, Mike. When FMI shared their roadmap publicly just recently it came as a complete but pleasant surprise. The fact that they are opening up speaks volumes to me and I am super-excited for the future of FileMaker.

                       

                      Beyond that, as you suggest -- I've been using FileMaker for decades and it's somehow paid for my house, clothed and fed my wife and kids, and even enabled me to go to DevCon, despite all of its deficiencies.

                      • 8. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                        amysink

                        FileMaker is incredibly expensive. Can't copy and paste objects that should be able to. ExecuteSQL is still hobbled. So many more issues that the fan boys can't see.

                        • 9. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                          jormond

                          Most of us spend enough time in other development platforms to not only recognize the issues...but also accept them for what they are. We use the tool that is best suited for the project.

                           

                          Expensive is a ridiculously subjective term. At our office, it basically cost less than $50/yr per user. That's not expensive. Factor in the speed of development and changes that we make on a daily basis vs the alternatives, the ROI is orders of magnitude higher than anything else. To see the stack we are using company-wide, is impressive. It all works because of the flexibility and capabilities FM gives us.

                           

                          Call that "fanboy" if you want. We like to think it is a well-thought-out, calculated, and sound business decision. We don't choose FM because are in love with FM. We choose FM because it provides tremendous ROI. So we choose warts X, Y, Z instead of dealing with another platform and warts A- W.

                          • 10. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                            amysink

                            From: https://store.filemaker.com

                            Up To 100 Users $8,748.00 ( Annual )

                            Up To 100 Users $25,944.00 ( Perpetual )

                            • 11. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                              FileKraft

                              Would be interesting to know why it was a huge disappointment in your opinion?

                               

                              Regarding FMP16 offering $var as path for FileMaker Data Source paths is a major break through if I understood this correctly from last roadmap webinar. it opens up possibilities for future FM development which adds another dimension to native FM development.

                               

                              Most disappointing for me is quality of each new release and performance issues. New bugs introduced - behavior changes and juggling between older versions - so I understand your tone.

                              • 12. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                                fmpdude

                                Agree, but just vote with your wallet or use another product. Try to get as much out of FMP as it has to give.

                                 

                                Unlike some of the others here (whose opinions I respect), I have a difficult time being optimistic since it took version 15 to get "Undo" (an expected version 1.0 capability) to show up.

                                 

                                All the missing features begs the questions:

                                 

                                1. Is FMI .... listening?

                                     (Weren't there like 820 suggestions?)

                                2. Am I the one who's not in the FMP target audience?

                                3. Does FMI have the resources to do stuff?

                                4. Why is the very last version rarely, if ever updated?

                                .

                                .

                                .

                                5. Why am I writing this list?

                                 

                                Good luck!

                                2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                                  fmpdude

                                  So, unless you have the customer income coming in to cover that pricing "model" ($$$), forget FMS.

                                   

                                  After FMS version 12, I don't even consider it.

                                   

                                  Lots of others have jumped ship too.

                                   

                                  You're not alone in your feelings, but none of us control what FMI does.

                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: I am hanging on by a thread...FileMaker 16 better deliver some innovation!
                                    mikebeargie

                                    8748 / 12 = 729/month

                                    729 / 100 = $7.29 per user/month

                                     

                                    $7.29 a month vs. the $20/month for InDesign I pointed out earlier? Sounds like FileMaker is priced just fine.

                                     

                                    That’s also pricing without discounts, which FBA members can get.

                                     

                                    Here’s some other comparisons to make:

                                     

                                    Salesforce CRM Starter - $25/user/month

                                    Salesforce CRM Complete - $75/user/month

                                    Microsoft Dynamics CRM Complete - $40/user/month

                                    Tableau Online - ~$42/user/month

                                    Tableau Professional - $167/user/month

                                    Oracle Marketing Cloud - $200/user/month AND limited to 2000 contacts.

                                    4 of 6 people found this helpful
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