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    FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service

    planteg

      Hi all,

       

      I have an issue installing FMS 16 (FDS version) on Windows 10 Pro Full Patched.

       

      The first part went fine, but things changed when the deployment procedure was started in Edge. This happens right at first step, where you set the admin user name, PIN etc. I get the spinning wheel right away, and pressing any button at the bottom does not work. I closed Edge, restarted it and launched the Deployment procedure, same thing. I noted that in Windows log for Application, two entries are written as as soon as the Deployment is started:

       

      • Client application registered 2 identical instances of service Acer-M39\032-\032Admin\032Console\032de\032FileMaker\032Server._http._tcp.local. port 16000.
      • Client application registered 2 identical instances of service Acer-M39\032-\032Outils\032de\032publication\032Web._http._tcp.local. port 16000.

       

      How can I get rid of that error ? As far as I understand, Bonjour sometimes gets in the way.

       

      Previously FMS 15 was installed. I uninstalled it and migrated to Windows 10 from Windows 7.

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
          bigtom

          Windows 10 is not supported.

           

          System Requirements for FileMaker Server 16 | FileMaker

           

          Windows Server 2016 Standard Edition (with Desktop Experience)

          Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard Edition with Update (see Microsoft KB 2919355)

          Windows 2008 R2 SP1 Standard and Enterprise Editions
          • 2. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
            bigtom

            I always use Chrome on Windows Server and seems to be more stable.

            • 3. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
              planteg

              Chrome is the default browser, but the installer once finished starts the Deployment on Edge.

              • 4. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                planteg

                bigtom ,

                 

                you pointed in the right direction. I used Chrome instead of Edge to relaunch the Deployment and all went well ! Stiil have the messages about Bonjour in the Application log, so I will need to figure out how to solve that.

                 

                Looks like the new Windows 10 Browser is (s)crap from edge to edge .

                • 5. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                  alangodfrey

                  Hi, planteg

                  I installed FMS 15 on Windows 7 and it worked perfectly, except for Web Direct (which the client wasn't using anyway). When I try to install FMS 16 on Windows 7 Pro it fails to start the Filemaker Service, saying I don't have the privileges.  I haven't found a way around that one yet.

                   

                  But when I try to install FMS 16 on a Windows 10 Pro workstation it won't even attempt the install, saying that 'this app is not compatible with this operating system'.  Can you tell me how you got it to install on Windows 10, please?

                   

                  Thank you.

                  • 6. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                    planteg

                    Hi Alan,

                     

                    1- I installed FMS 15 on Windows 7 and it worked perfectly, except for Web Direct (which the client wasn't using anyway).

                     

                    Do you mean that that Windows 7 is production computer ? If so I would not recommend that, since FMS is not supported on any Windows x Pro. On my side, FMS on Windows 7 Pro, even WebDirect was working.

                     

                    2- When I try to install FMS 16 on Windows 7 Pro it fails to start the Filemaker Service, saying I don't have the privileges.

                     

                    At some point, the installer asks under which user account should FMS run. Did you pick Local System ? Gotto the services and display FileMaker Server service properties. Activate the second tab from the left (Connection) and check which account was chosen. Select Local System Account if it's not the one selected.

                     

                     

                    3- But when I try to install FMS 16 on a Windows 10 Pro workstation it won't even attempt the install, saying that 'this app is not compatible with this operating system'.  Can you tell me how you got it to install on Windows 10, please?

                     

                    Hum, that one puzzles me. Is your Windows 10 full patched ? If not I would apply all patches first. When you try to install again, make sure to use an administrator account.

                    • 7. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                      alangodfrey

                      Thanks indeed for your fast response.

                       

                      Yes, the Win 7 computer could become a production machine.  We have 20+ existing customers using version 11 for around 4-8 users.  They are extremely happy with their solution, and are happy to grow their number of users (and to recommend us to others), but we cannot get them to migrate to a higher version as the additional cost of that one extra user becomes huge - a dedicated Windows server machine, server OS, FM server, and then user licences sold in packs of 5.  They find the cost of growing by a few more users a real show-stopper.  We went from generating (from those customers) sales of FM Pro licences at maybe 5 per month to absolutely zero once support for FM 11 stopped.  If FM allowed peer-to-peer sharing as per version 11 we would release a lot of sales to these customers and new ones.  Well, a *lot* by our standards: just a minor irritation by FM Inc's standards.  If we could confirm that the Server would run on Win7 or Win10 then that would be two significant obstacles removed.  I appreciate that our customers are 'not the kind of customers FM wishes to have now' so there is no point in asking FM for help or support: I know I will always be stone-walled.

                       

                      - The battle to convert those customers will be in the range Huge -> Impossible, so we may as well get them on to Version 16 if possible.  Everything else worked on Win 7 with Version 15, and as those customers never use web direct I didn't spend any more time on it.  I expected that to be part of the fall-out of not using a server OS.  But it would have been useful for another couple of customers, if I had had your success.

                       

                      - When installing Version 16 on Win 7 Pro I tried both Local and System user.  Neither would work.  I also tried starting the Filemaker Server Service directly, and it fails for a time-out (Error 1503, from memory).  I also tried manually entering the credentials for that Service, and it failed also.

                      The machine is fully patched.  (As in, I ran a 'Check for updates...' and it reported that it was completely up-to-date.)  There is only one account on the PC (it is not part of a domain) and it is an Administrator account.  I started the set-up with 'Run as administrator'.)

                       

                      - I can't try anything with an installation on Windows 10 - it simply tells me 'this app is not supported' and aborts.

                       

                      I appreciate your help and advice - I know it is an unsupported set-up.  I appreciate that there is less control over automatic restarts after Windows updates, for example.  But this is a case of trying to find a way to let our existing customers add maybe one more user without it costing them $x000.  They have got a really good database of their records; they don't want web access, remote hosting, geo-location, JSON integration - not even ODBC.

                       

                      Thanks again.

                      • 8. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                        wimdecorte

                        Just specced out a Dell T430 server - which is not even their cheapest model.  Including a license of Windows Server 2016 it comes out to $2,300.  That's with the faster of the processors they have, giving it 8 cores to work with.

                         

                        And for FMS you don't need to use the new 5-pack FLT licensing, you can still go with the old-style licensing.

                         

                        Hard for me to imagine that if the solution would be worth less than the price of that server.

                        • 9. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                          alangodfrey

                          Thanks, Wim, I appreciate that $2300 is a good price for a server.  But all of those 20+ customers have come to us from a background of 'No Computers', 'Lots of Excel Workbooks', or 'Had A Bad Experience With a Database Before'.  So they start off small with our solution, 'to see if we like it'.  They get 3 or 4 licences.  They really like it.  Now they want their Store Guy to try it, so they buy another FM Pro licence.  Their transition is going well, so they want the Sales Assistant to have it, too.  That also goes well, everybody is happy; so they want to add just one more user to make a total of maybe 6 or 7 - and that one user costs them that $2,300.  Plus the cost of FM server.  Plus the FM Pro licence (or 5 pack).

                           

                          At that point it all stops dead.  These are not 100-seat companies; they may only have 10 staff in total.

                           

                          Then we have existing customers with 7 or 8 users running (very happily) on FM 11.  For them to convert to be exactly where they are now (except running on version 16) would start with that $2,300, then add on the FM server software, and a new set of Pro licences at another $2,000+.  And that's before we convert their 200 layouts (just to get them back to where they were), and before we add any features to exploit any of the new tools that version 16 brings.

                           

                          I think our type of customer must be very niche, as no-one else seems to balk at the cost of a 6th user starting around $5000.

                           

                          I have to accept that FM were telling the truth: 'yours are not the type of customers we want any more'.  Restore 9-user per-to-peer and I believe there are many additional license sales there.

                          • 10. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                            wimdecorte

                            alangodfrey wrote:

                             

                            Thanks, Wim, I appreciate that $2300 is a good price for a server. But all of those 20+ customers have come to us from a background of 'No Computers', 'Lots of Excel Workbooks', or 'Had A Bad Experience With a Database Before'. So they start off small with our solution, 'to see if we like it'. They get 3 or 4 licences. They really like it. Now they want their Store Guy to try it, so they buy another FM Pro licence. Their transition is going well, so they want the Sales Assistant to have it, too. That also goes well, everybody is happy; so they want to add just one more user to make a total of maybe 6 or 7 - and that one user costs them that $2,300. Plus the cost of FM server. Plus the FM Pro licence (or 5 pack).

                             

                            At that point it all stops dead. These are not 100-seat companies; they may only have 10 staff in total.

                             

                            The size of the company is irrelevant I think.  My point is that these costs are well known ahead of time.  By choosing a particular platform you sorta commit to what it costs.  Either in licensing or in development cost.  If I'm dealing with a small company with limited budget I make it abundantly clear what the projected costs are so that there are no surprises.

                             

                            FM allows for very quick development and deployment but it comes at a premium licensing cost.  Other platforms don't have the same licensing cost but come with more expensive/longer development up-front, or require a more expensive learning curve for the developer.  Either way, these things can be estimated and extrapolated for the likely (and even unlikely scenarios).  And the client can make the choice based on that.  Or decide that excel will do just fine because there really is no money.

                             

                            So I'm not saying that FM is cheap; it is not.  But its cost should never really be a surprise; there should never be an "at this point it all stops dead" moment.  I think that is largely avoidable.

                            • 11. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                              wimdecorte

                              alangodfrey wrote:

                               

                               

                               

                              Then we have existing customers with 7 or 8 users running (very happily) on FM 11. For them to convert to be exactly where they are now (except running on version 16) would start with that $2,300, then add on the FM server software, and a new set of Pro licences at another $2,000+. And that's before we convert their 200 layouts (just to get them back to where they were), and before we add any features to exploit any of the new tools that version 16 brings.

                               

                              Counting from when FM12 was released (April 2012); that's a 5-year conversation with plenty of time to discuss options and acquire a budget to either upgrade and stay in FM or switch to a platform with less licensing costs.  So what I don't get is why it would be a surprise now or a difficult decision or feel like you are the hostage of the platform.

                               

                              I don't think FMI makes any choices about what types of customers they want - I think it is clear they want all the customers and sales they can get.  There's no conspiracy here.  they decide on the pricing for their products; we decide whether it fits or not.  Which is an exercise we do pretty much every time a new version comes around or FM announces new pricing structures.

                              When it doesn't fit we have a number of years to come up with strategies for our customers before the product goes stale and out of support.

                              • 12. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                                alangodfrey

                                Thank you for your insight, Wim - maybe I'm under-selling myself in the paraphrasing of the scenarios we now find ourselves in.  At least I hope I am.

                                 

                                With new customers I always explain to them up-front how much I believe the project will cost them, immediately and on-going.  It usually goes well until the point where they understand how much that 6th additional user will cost, and then it all stops dead.  They are not on a ramp to 50+users, they want to try with 3 or 4, and in their view peak out at maybe 8 or 9.  They are happy to accept that if this potentially marvellous (but untried, for them) solution works so well they will want a dozen users, they often respond "It's will be a problem we'll be glad to have...".  But meantime: no sale.

                                 

                                Our existing FM11 customers were also made fully aware of the costs (as we knew them at the time).  Their breakpoint was 10 users, and they were happy with that.  ("It would be a nice problem, etc...")  I did not foresee on their behalf 6 months later the change of architecture, the lack of backward compatibility, and the slashing of peer-to-peer to only 5, or the idea that support would now probably end after 3 years. I don't think that missing foresight falls into the same category as, say, 'I didn't see iBeacons coming', or 'I thought they might soon introduce Linux support'.

                                 

                                As I follow commercial conversation in the forum I am becoming more convinced (and therefore embarrassed at being the Odd Boy) that I am operating in a rarefied market-place, where customers don't have big budgets, and where they are very happy to be using the same (good) software after 5 years or more - they do not have the same interest in new features and platform changes that the IT professional usually has.  I'll back away quietly now, of fear of causing myself further embarrassment.

                                 

                                Thanks again for your insight, Wim.

                                • 13. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                                  wimdecorte

                                  alangodfrey wrote:

                                  I'll back away quietly now, of fear of causing myself further embarrassment.

                                   

                                   

                                  No need for that; these are great conversations for all of us to understand the marketplace and how to position ourselves, our skills and provide the best possible information to our customers.

                                  • 14. Re: FMS 16 installation, issue with Bonjour service
                                    beverly

                                    You are not a rarity. I have non-profit clients that use what they have (that still works) as long a they can. If they reach of point of need for new equipment and/or software (not just FileMaker), then they apply for grants to do so and/or have fund-raisers.

                                    Beverly

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