1 2 3 Previous Next 69 Replies Latest reply on May 20, 2017 10:04 PM by Lemmtech

    FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(

    sstpierre

      I was quit impress by this new baby (FMP 16) always getting better and better!

      What FM is doing is so cool, FM looks for the futur, the IOS thing, the Internet, JSON, JS, etc.

      New features, great product, good branding.

       

      Everybody is exciting, not only the folks on FM's web site !!

       

      But saddly, every years push me out and many other, from this great engine and it's great community : stil the runtimes is not out yet. But how many more years could we expect to make it as a living? It is again in the sad depreceted list and those new flesh JSON stuffs are out of reach for us, the sole dev, the poor guys, that relies on FMP, not only for a piece of cake, but for the fun of it, the community as I said.

       

      One day I'll have, and many of us - I think - won't have the choice - to live that ship!

       

      We put a lot of effort, courage, to build tools, biz, customer and hopes. FMP is not Bento people!

      Bento was a test drive for CSS3, layouts, themes, and GUI markeys auto layout, etc.

       

      Runtimes are Lab for schools, for Libraries, Museums, for Biz and for US dev warriors! Fools and devoted fan of FMP!

      With this release I said to my wife, well: another year or so...

      Damn it!

       

      Java can do everything, mySQL, Javascript, the web is there... and hopefully with FMP and it's runtime solution, kiosk mode and the web hosting.

      So big promesses, cool stuf to come, but locked for us!

       

      Yes, my wife will be there!! But... is sucks!!! She was encouraging me with FMP. Now what ! I wouldn't build her flowers!!!

      Why would I bought FMP 17, should I leave now, to propare for the future, cause I'm not depreceted yet!

       

      So long, Like Bowie said "We were fun boy!!"

      FMP was a fun tool to use. Hope they can make change my mind.

       

      Sincerely.

        • 1. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
          mikebeargie

          Runtimes have never been able to support server functions like backups, CWP, IWP, WebDirect, hosting multiple users, etc...

           

          Why would you assume they would support acting as a REST data source? Especially since runtimes are currently listed on the "to be removed" deprecated list.

           

          Not sure what is being lost in translation here, but since you managed to use all the category tags, I'm assuming you at least can see the value in everything filemaker does for you, as opposed to everything else you listed off, which labor from dev time takes exponentially more time to develop.

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
            sstpierre

            Hi Mike.

            You're right.

             

            But maybe some sympathy... ?

             

            JSON is not just for REST APIs

            and when I saw them and tryed them, I tough that it could be cool to use them , but :

            "

            Notes

            This function is not supported in runtime solutions and returns "?".

            "

             

            and it sucks.

             

            And what is it in my post that is not sadness to go away from FMP and leave the ship, the community, guys like you.

            Just hoping some support, not cold shot! Support.

             

            It sad to see FMP going up and at the same time, realizing that runtimes and kiosk mode are to be removed some days, it's a bit sad. And I don't understand your comment, where does it leeds to? It sounds like you just don't care. And this is not sports! (Is it decause I'm french... oh!)

             

            FM doesn't need dogs!! I know what it give to us, and we all celebrate it here everyday! we complaint when we loose somthing, it's human, doesn't it?

             

            Every times we complaint they are people that say : "hey! what do you expect". Symapathy, support, community!

            As I say: what where you trying to tell me if not, nothing?

             

            I love FMP just like you and we are all part of this great community, we all work for them, for us and for are customer.

            We don't need to get emotional. Two guys have been disconnected from the community and I think that it may have to do with some FMP 16 features that aren't supported or not.

             

            "Translation...", and "tags." It was just to tell runetimes are everywhere in the forums, a lot af dev guy use it, love it and need support.

             

            it's allways a great thing of knowledge to read your post.

            Hope you better understand that I love FMP, and to read your post, even if I'm french or if I wich we could have a futur with the great product as runtimes and kiosk solutions, and why not with more of those stuffs, like Web, Androïd.

            We whant the whole world!!!

             

            Still 16 is great looking, going further with dynamism...

            And please no arm. Didn't mean to hurt nobody PLEASE

             

            Choa friend, hope you understand my poor english.

            • 3. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
              monkeybreadsoftware

              Not sure if you noticed.

              But all the new functions for hex encoding, crypt, json, sort and unique lists are all deactivated for runtimes.

              Someone at FMI must have put an explicit condition there to disable them for runtime on purpose.

              • 4. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                alecgregory

                Is it a licensing issue? Like with PDFs?

                • 5. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                  fmpdude

                  I hear you. But, you don't need to abandon FMP. At least not yet...

                   

                  What I do to work around product limitations is to augment FMP with a (Java) microservice. FMP's INSERT FROM URL is supported in Runtimes. As you said, and I wholeheartedly agree, Java can do everything. Yes, it really can.

                   

                  So, from FMP, I call INSERT FROM URL to a microservice, pass whatever I need to (GET or POST), and get the results back into FMP. FAST.  JSON? No problem!

                   

                  A microservice does add an additional dependency to the computer or server (Java must be installed and you have to start the service so it listens on a port you decide), but a microservice comes with many strengths:

                   

                  1. Is cross platform so the service can reside ... anywhere (Linux, Mac, Win). Local/WAN, you name it.


                  2. Allows any application that can do a GET to use the service (Terminal, FMP, Firefox, Opera, Chrome, ....)


                       (POST or other HTTP verbs also supported.)


                  3. Is FREE. No expensive FMP plug-ins needed


                  4. Means there is no FMP plug-in installation and configuration for every copy of FMP you might have


                  5. Means no restrictive plug-in license agreements


                  6. Is extremely powerful
 (get the full power of Java + free third-party libraries like Apache and others.)

                  7. Puts you in charge of the service code. Not a third party.


                  8. Is ... FAST!

                  9. Externalize loops (as just one example) in Java to keep loops out of slow FMP scripts.

                  10. You could email the service JAR file to others and they could use it right away (assuming Java installed, etc.)

                   

                  So, I leverage FMP's strengths, which are many, with Java. FMI's (marketing department?) decision to cripple various parts of the FMP platform (FMI: "shame on you for using Run-tine instead of a full paid product!") is incredibly irritating if that's really what's going on.

                   

                  So I'm still happy with 14 and micro-services augmentation. I can do everything I need with no plug-ins and incredible speed. If FMI cripples INSERT FROM URL, I'd leave the platform, but so far so good. I take it day by day with FMI.

                   

                  Vote with your wallet.

                   

                  I'll try to help answer any specific questions you might have.

                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                    fmpdude

                    Someone at FMI must have put an explicit condition there to disable them for runtime on purpose.

                     

                    Yep!

                     

                    Sad.

                    • 7. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                      nodisorder

                      I've just realized that new functions are not on runtimes, but what about all other new features?

                       

                      Now I will deprecate runtime from my mind too.

                       

                      I believe that if we could account the cost of how the runtime feature deprecation was and is managed I'm sure that the damage to the FileMaker Platform is huge.

                      This is something that can't understand.

                       

                      Very sad.

                      • 8. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                        fmpdude

                        It's almost as though FMI only wants you to use FMS.

                         

                        Hmmm.....

                        • 9. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                          fmpdude

                          How could sorting be a licensing issue?

                           

                          And, speaking of PDFs, if you use iText 2.x libraries, there were no restrictions on those as I recall.

                          • 10. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                            sstpierre

                            How can I thank you more for that reply!

                            With a dozen of beers!

                             

                            Can you tell me more about microservices, do you have a demo?

                            I know we can use Javascript, but not quit use to the fmurl and GET-POST mecanism.

                            Going to read a lot, FM Help 16 and any place you could point me at.

                            What about creating are own plug-ins in c++, how is that working, any clue?

                             

                            It's a pleasure to know that we still have a tiny door open, cause you can't argu that it's a beauty, but as Apple

                            they are stuck in dev, slow and not open that much. If I where to have the chance to run a biz and have any kind of possibilities to have more shares, more custumers, more money, more fun and more poeple I would open doors to Linux, to Andoïd, even to Raspberry Pi. The future is there, schools, linux and the like. I remember when finishing a degree in computer science, back in 1997, and exposing my love to the mac, I was the only one at home with a mac, translating code in java, or c, or c++ back and forth from school to home every day.

                             

                            And now, from minus 7 billions, that guy, Steve Jobs to name him, they got more than 250 billion in spare money!!

                            Is one of the best known company in the wolrd, stollen a couple of pc guy from winblows - : ) - and every kid in this is world is dying to have an iThings, et voilà!

                             

                            Now theyr's Linux and Androïd... to grab.

                            Back then Java was the way to go, it was the futur, it was cool and Oracle with is CEO - a big friend of the late Steve - bought Java from sun. But they let Google took it and now python, wich is the most beautifull language in the world.

                            The OSX is still in Python 2.7, a dinosaurus!!

                            Windows is getting to it, now the poor guy at pc world can run python and linux thing and tomorrow they'll be at macOS door an eat them and the dinosaurus will be history, like sony, like many that got to big too move, to fat to run, to slow.

                            Google is the futur, as it moves faster, now.

                             

                            Apparently they have enough money, they seems not to care, when they cut-off, it's because they don't see or CAN'T see OR DON'T WHANT TO SEE the futur or any other possibilities in the markets, but there's planties of (LINUX, ANDRÏOD - people always ask me for an Androïd version as when I spoke to them they seems to be enchanté from what it can do, and Raspberry Pi and all the internet of Things , from cars to frigs, to watch, to cloth!!)

                             

                            It reminds me a song from The The : "The futur is now, but it's all going wrong!"

                             

                             

                            Anyway!

                             

                            Have a very nice day, have a beer, and tx a lot, if you got any clue or demo for me, it'll make my year, or so.

                            TX

                            • 11. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                              fmpdude

                              Glad to help!

                               

                              For really simple micro services, at least for proof-of-concept stuff, I'd look at spark java: Spark Framework: A tiny Java web framework/.  (About 15% of deployed Spark applications each serve more than 10.000 users a day.)

                               

                              You can create a GET service with really just one line of code!

                               

                              import static spark.Spark.*;

                              public class HelloWorld {
                                 public static void main(String[] args) {
                                get("/hello", (req, res) -> "Hello World");
                                 }
                              }

                               

                              ====

                               

                              Then, call it (from FileMaker, Terminal, Browser, ........) like this:

                              http://localhost:4567/hello

                               

                              2 of 2 people found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                                fmpdude

                                There's also the 800 lb gorilla: "Spring Boot" for more industrial level micro-service applications. Lots of books, resources, and the like for it.

                                • 13. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                                  sstpierre

                                  tx

                                   

                                  looking for Spark!

                                  seems good

                                   

                                  see how it could work in real world FMP solution

                                  how to use it, what it could resolve, etc

                                   

                                  get back to you some time

                                   

                                  tx a lot

                                  don't stop!

                                  • 14. Re: FMP 16 new JSON not supporting Runtime solutions :(
                                    fmpros

                                    "It's almost as though FMI only wants you to use FMS."

                                     

                                    Of course!  Look at the evolution of the product platform over the last 3-4 iterations; most notably WebDirect, FLT licenses, now the move to REST.  They're tightening the noose, so to speak, or perhaps, plugging the leaks, in the use of their product.  Think that everytime a Runtime is sold by a developer a license(s) was lost to FMI.  I've always felt that Runtimes had a limited lifespan; at least to the FileMaker philosophy of customer relations Runtime didn't make sense.  We are basically at the mercy of FMI as to the direction of our programming paradigm.  I think they understand that very well.  They know they have the premiere RAD DB tool for polished programs and yes, it's addictive and hard to move away from.  So far they are moving in a mostly agreeable direction, slowly....ever so slowly, and we're just along fro the ride.  Hopefully they will continue to move in a generally right direction, which I believe they will; it just makes good marketing sense.

                                    2 of 2 people found this helpful
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