I’m excited about the FM17 release, lots of great stuff that makes the developer’s life easier.
However, I just wonder why the price for the individual license is $540 in the US, whereas in Spain is $825!! this is just a crazy difference. I'll say good bye to small projects for one-man business. There is just no margin for adding the cost of development.
(Note: price in euros is 696,96€, converted to USD using today's exchange rate at 1.18)
Thank you Menno, I'm referring to people that for instance keep their invoicing data in Excel and would like to migrate to a more sophisticated software.
I have worked in FileMaker consulting for almost 20 years, about 6 of them in the US (NYC), and the remaining years mostly in Spain. It used to be easy and affordable for a one-man business to transition from Excel to FileMaker, but this is no longer the case for two main reasons:
1) individual licenses are getting too expensive
2) there is no option for having a FileMaker file "in the cloud" for just one user (after shared hosting was banned)
There are two easy solutions that would make more people consider to buy FileMaker as an option to having an Excel file on Dropbox or iCloud:
1) thin client for a lower price (FM Go for desktop)
2) allow shared hosting
But I guess FMI is not interested in this marked, even though FileMaker is marketed as an easy to use, low code app builder.
Seems like FMI is trying to kick out all small developers (like me) and just focuses on the big money. I hope this strategy will not work out and they will be forced to overthink it. Why do they not think of FMP as a Developer Platform and try to make some reasonable money from our clients (e.g. runtimes or thin clients) instead of milking our clients to death with a product that's vastly oversized?
I am horrified by the new price. And every time I think, FMI has overstepped the mark they come up with something even worse... Time to leave the platform!
>>Seems like FMI is trying to kick out all small developers
Can't see that is remotely true, or at the very least is hyperbole. They have moved the bottom rung on the ladder, that's all. You can still get single copies of Pro Advanced, you can still peer-to-peer share files, just if you want server too there is a little higher to jump.
Dont' over-react - there are some really compelling reasons to investigate 17 fully.
FMI has become even more clear in its marketing message with version 17 but this should have already been clearer to someone in the past couple of versions. FM is now officially a platform and one is now buying a licence to access the platform. Their message is to build custom apps for businesses to be used for internal purposes (this is me paraphrasing the obvious). Distribution of apps via runtime or CWP have long stopped being maintained and will be deprecated at some point. So FM is not develop apps for mainstream and it's not the focus of FMI. I am not saying it's impossible to do, lots of people are doing it, but there is a risk. And the risk is that FMI keeps going on the path of a platform (now it's official) which is different than building a native app in any language.
My opinion is that FMI doesn't thy to kick out small developers, I too am a small developer, it's just you have to understand which business cases does FM apply for and work on that case as a developer. FM doesn't is not a tool for all the jobs. Instead if most of your clients are coming to you with ideas they want to launch as products, use a proper programming language. If you are not as accustomed and still want cross-platform/hybrid app, use Xojo or React Native.
Also as well pointed by Menno, EUR to USD prices look like they a vary greatly but instead if you take off VAT included in the European prices, it's not that bad. Still there is a good difference there but it's FMI's way of securing itself from foreign exchange fluctuations. In my honest opinion their whole distribution and pricing could have been done better and more efficiently which is something they should look into doing in the future.
Finally if you are a professional FileMaker Developer then becoming an FBA or getting FileMaker Developer Subscription gets you a full pack of 5-user licence for the platform, so no need to buy FMPA!
velistar wrote:
Distribution of apps via runtime or CWP have long stopped being maintained and will be deprecated at some point.
CWP is still very much alive. While the PHP and XML APIs are on the deprecated list, the new Data API is meant to replace those.
There are already many wrappers available on GitHub that wrap the Data API for .NET, PHP, JS, Python. So CWP is still very much alive.
In the global market I do not see why FMI clings to regional pricing with so much discrepancy in prices. It’s just not cool. When you get to the point of hearing about companies trying to setup an LLC in the USA just to buy FM licensing at a reasonable cost, it is obviously out of whack.
I can see the single copy pricing as a barrier to entry for someone who wants to “play” with FileMaker. However, if we are talking about someone who wants to work as a developer and make something that will make them money, this is a different thing.
I do not see any reason why a professional or aspiring developer would not make back at least $640/year ($540 FMPA + $100 FDS) from doing development work. If you can’t make that much you should find something else to do.
Same thing from a business perspective. The value of FM in the business should be well over 10x the cost of licensing and development in the first year alone.
If it is seriously a challenge to justify the expense, keep using Excel.
FileMaker Developer Subscription ( FDS ) is a 3 user license for development and testing. Just wanted to clarify that for other readers.
This is a big deal. This allows for new developers, and small developers to easily get into the platform and learn the ins and outs before purchasing licenses for their clients. Or having their clients purchase the licenses. The cost of entry for a developer is now only $99 per year. That ridiculously awesome.
velistar wrote:
or getting FileMaker Developer Subscription gets you a full pack of 5-user licence for the platform, so no need to buy FMPA!
Does FDS come with FMPA now?
Yes. Basically, every "License" is a platform license, not an individual product license.
One User License = FileMaker Sever, FileMaker Pro Advanced, FileMaker Go, FileMaker WebDirect. So the User ( User = Person ), can access the files on FMS from any of the client applications, simultaneously.
Bonus! :-) I guess it would come as a consequence of the FDS 'testing' server essentially just being a 3-user license that now includes FMPA as a replacement for FMP (for User Connections) which no longer exists.
Another interesting licensing quirk we found is that we previously had 2 FMPA annual licenses for in-house Devs in addition to 15 user FLT, and now received email for those 2 FMPA licenses that have now been converted to a 2-user 'User License', so includes Server now as well as FMPA... We have FMS coming out of our ears - still can't get WebDirect to work properly when hosted on Windows Server 2012/16 either on Azure or Amazon AWS, but that's another thread I will no doubt start soon If I cannot find a solution!
velistar wrote:
FMI has become even more clear in its marketing message with version 17 but this should have already been clearer to someone in the past couple of versions. FM is now officially a platform and one is now buying a licence to access the platform. Their message is to build custom apps for businesses to be used for internal purposes (this is me paraphrasing the obvious). Distribution of apps via runtime or CWP have long stopped being maintained and will be deprecated at some point. So FM is not develop apps for mainstream and it's not the focus of FMI. I am not saying it's impossible to do, lots of people are doing it, but there is a risk. And the risk is that FMI keeps going on the path of a platform (now it's official) which is different than building a native app in any language.
My opinion is that FMI doesn't thy to kick out small developers, I too am a small developer, it's just you have to understand which business cases does FM apply for and work on that case as a developer. FM doesn't is not a tool for all the jobs. Instead if most of your clients are coming to you with ideas they want to launch as products, use a proper programming language. If you are not as accustomed and still want cross-platform/hybrid app, use Xojo or React Native.
Also as well pointed by Menno, EUR to USD prices look like they a vary greatly but instead if you take off VAT included in the European prices, it's not that bad. Still there is a good difference there but it's FMI's way of securing itself from foreign exchange fluctuations. In my honest opinion their whole distribution and pricing could have been done better and more efficiently which is something they should look into doing in the future.
Finally if you are a professional FileMaker Developer then becoming an FBA or getting FileMaker Developer Subscription gets you a full pack of 5-user licence for the platform, so no need to buy FMPA!
Sorry, I probably didn't explain myself well on my first post, I see it was misleading. I wasn't referring to myself as a one-man business that finds expensive to buy a FMPA17 license (I don't consider myself as a small developer, we are FBA, a team of four developers, so the new 5-user license is perfect for us ... thank you FMI for this initiative btw!).
My point is that I used to enjoy small projects for just one person who used Excel (or even Word ...) to "upgrade" to FileMaker Pro. These small projects could come up just after a conversation when meeting somebody in a barbecue party ... with just a few hours of work there was a very happy and grateful person that would never come back to Excel. It wasn't a matter of money ... big projects are obviously more profitable. And a couple of years later this could become a few users solution with FMS license, that is the opportunity cost for FMI I was referring to.
About FileMaker in the cloud, back in the days before FM15 a freelancer or one-man business could "affordably" switch from a spreadsheet stored in Dropbox or Google Drive, to FileMaker in the cloud, by just buying a license for about $300 and uploading it to a shared hosting for $19 / month. That was a pretty reasonable cost for one user.
Now for one single user to go from an Excel file in the cloud to a FileMaker file in the cloud you need to buy or rent a 5 users license, that means about $150 / month. Most freelancers or one-man business can't afford that, at least this is my experience in Spain. On top of that, the individual license price is getting higher, so even if a single user doesn't need the file accessed from anywhere from multiple devices, it's starting to be expensive for just one person, without taking into account the cost of development.
So ... there is no longer an affordable transition from Excel to FileMaker for single users, specially for having a FileMaker file in the cloud.
I guess you can only lead the horse to the river.
From the description on the FDS purchase page at: FileMaker Store: FileMaker Developer Subscription
FileMaker Server Development License
This special, test-only license for FileMaker Server includes full product functionality and features. The FileMaker Server 17 Development License allows up to three (3) licenses of FileMaker Server, three (3) simultaneous web-based client connections for Custom Web Publishing, and three (3) user licenses to access FileMaker Pro Advanced, FileMaker Go, and FileMaker WebDirect. FileMaker Pro Advanced can be used either online (connected to FileMaker Server) or offline. FileMaker Data API is included and comes with 2 GB outbound data transfer per user, per month — for a total of 72 GB per year. This license may only be used for development and testing purposes and it may not be used in a production environment. It is not eligible to convert to FileMaker Cloud via Bring Your Own License.
AndresLP wrote:
So ... there is no longer an affordable transition from Excel to FileMaker for single users, specially for having a FileMaker file in the cloud.
What you're asking is still possible. It may even be less expensive than what you were doing previously. The solution is to become a FileMaker hosting provider where you maintain a cloud for all your single user customers. Talk to your FileMaker rep if you're not clear on how this works.
Mike Feeney wrote:
AndresLP wrote:
So ... there is no longer an affordable transition from Excel to FileMaker for single users, specially for having a FileMaker file in the cloud.
What you're asking is still possible. It may even be less expensive than what you were doing previously. The solution is to become a FileMaker hosting provider where you maintain a cloud for all your single user customers. Talk to your FileMaker rep if you're not clear on how this works.
Really?? I thought this was only possible with an SBA program that means selling just one solution to multiple clients. If what you are saying is not breaking any EULA I would definitely go for it.
I understand what you mean about a "one-man business", but I must say that I was quite grateful that the small businesses I work with can now license 6, 7, 8, or 9 seats without doubling their costs, the way it used to be when licensing only came in increments of 5 seats.
Statement posted on some of the FM hosting website
With the introduction of FileMaker 15, FileMaker Inc. has changed it's End User License Agreement (EULA) and will no longer allow shared FileMaker hosting on versions 15 and greater. That means if you want to use FileMaker Pro 15/16 and want to be hosted on a FileMaker 15/16 server, you will need to get your own Dedicated FileMaker Server.
I thought this was only possible with an SBA program that means selling just one solution to multiple clients.
That is the way I understand it works too.
Honestly I don't know the exact licensing differences between FBA and SBA or exceptions made for hosting providers. Which is why you should talk with you FileMaker rep about what will work best.
schamblee wrote:
Statement posted on some of the FM hosting website
With the introduction of FileMaker 15, FileMaker Inc. has changed it's End User License Agreement (EULA) and will no longer allow shared FileMaker hosting on versions 15 and greater. That means if you want to use FileMaker Pro 15/16 and want to be hosted on a FileMaker 15/16 server, you will need to get your own Dedicated FileMaker Server.
I thought this was only possible with an SBA program that means selling just one solution to multiple clients.
That is the way I understand it works too.
I should actually work this way ... FBAs approved for hosting should be allowed to offer shared hosting for their clients, otherwise it's just a label in the list of partners. But my understanding is it's not allowed, I wish I was wrong ...
Sorry, I probably didn't explain myself well on my first post, I see it was misleading. I wasn't referring to myself as a one-man business that finds expensive to buy a FMPA17 license (I don't consider myself as a small developer, we are FBA, a team of four developers, so the new 5-user license is perfect for us ... thank you FMI for this initiative btw!).
Yeah it wasn't clear then but I get your point now.I too have the same experience you have in Spain here in Cyprus
In my opinion if FMI lowered the entry to $720 for 4-users, scrapped the perpetual and individuals then things would have been much more streamlined. Still the one-man-show shops would need to take a bit of a bite but if they grow with 1-2 team members it would totally be worth it.
Get a Product Ideas posted. I'll vote for it. Seems options for subscriptions for 1-4 users would be very popular. And lead to more 5-10, 10-15, etc licenses.
No velistar
Site licensing is NOT the same as user licencing
With user licences you get 3 server
With Site licencing you get as many servers as you have seats
Please dont mix things up
And NO please don't push to scrap perpetual licenses... again not the same thing as the point you were trying to make
I know jrenfrew but
25 user licensing annual $3600 - includes 3 servers
25 site licensing annual $2175 - includes 25 servers
Definitely not the same thing. Definitely needs some re-thinking.
Re: perpetual licensing, it's not me that is pushing to scrap it but FMI already.
The price you pay in europe includes VAT. Without it, it is 576 euro, which about $690 but still $140 more.
Don’t qualify for upgrade? That would set you back 209 euro without VAT