1 2 Previous Next 24 Replies Latest reply on Feb 3, 2012 9:19 AM by timwhisenant

    Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?

    listen2earth

      i lost all my vital data in all my fields in my current Table on my main file apparently i guess i assume because i was hastily busy renaming all my relationships while deleting many old relations not needed and accidently deleted the Current File Main Table cause i had different name on it thinking it was duplicated one and there she goes pooh gone all of my vital data vanished by just selecting Table deleting and FileMaker Advance 11 has absolutely NO WARNING Dialog to tell you that this Table belongs to the current file and deleting it will delete all data.

       

      Unless my file is corrupted which i not see any signs that it is!! There is a table in the graph showing the origional name of the origional Table but it shows it does not belong to the current file. So obiviosly it is a duplication while also FM shows there is no tables available that belongs to the current file.

       

      This all clearly indicates without a doubt that FileMaker developers have gone absolutely crazy to allow a user to delete any current graph Tables whatsoever!! It should be a complete no no, for saving years of data down the drain simply by selecting current Table and pressing delete and pooh gone all your data!!!!

       

      As a developer when working extensively designing creating making changes there's always a lot of deletions and the recreating o what has been deleted.

       

      IN LIGHT OF ALL WHAT'S BEEN MENTION FILEMAKER SHOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO DELETIONS OF ANY COMPONENTS BUT INSTEAD DISPOSE OF DELETIONS INTO A TRASH CAN WHERE ALL CAN BE RETREIVED !!

       

      i still there's got to be a way to restore my Table??

       

      rob lewis

        • 1. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
          comment

          Rob,

           

          Do I understand correctly that you have deleted a "table" from the Relationship Graph? And that it still exists in the list of tables under the Tables tab?

          • 2. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
            listen2earth

            Thank you!!

             

            Well as we know in the relationship graph sometimes FM says duplication of the current Table is required in making certain types of relationships and FM automatically duplicates one for you giving it the same name but with a number.

             

            Ok so we end up having many more than one table of the original AND ok so you rename these along times way and ok so now which one is the original one when years later you return to upgrade your work getting rid of unwanted tables and bingo you delete the original file Table cause you not know which one is the original. i was thinking it wouldn't make any difference not knowing for i just thought renaming anyone of them to be the name of the original and sadly that not works and that cost me. FM let's you delete your original table ??? And FM dialog warning is not efficient as explained below.

             

            Pooh all my data gone in all my fields!!

             

            FM shows no current Tables exit for current file even though a duplicated one exist. It had a different name so i renamed it back to what the current Table name was  but that does not work!!

             

             

            FM needs a trash can and STOP any and all DELETIONS OF ANY KIND!!! This is absurd!! FM is a database machine that keeps track of every bit and byte of ANY little data.. i mean look at ANY recovery log geeeeeese all the stuff FM records that's generally never used but just sits around so wheres FileMaker's Trash Can for any DELETIONS!!!

             

            ANY DELETIONS OF ANY KIND IS ABSURD on a computer machine period !!!!

             

            Look at America!! In all people's garages!! My god all the things people hang on to for fear of needing it much later!!!

             

            People just do not throw things away!!

             

            So WHY??? Why our machines!!

             

            Lease Apple is wise to this and has a beautiful trash Can!!

             

            Where's FileMakers?? Dumpster?

             

            i wouldn't be in this sinking boat if FM Developers had not drank too much coffee over looking this outrageous missing step having the same improper dialog for any and every Table when deleting any Tables. FM should not allow you to delete the main current table!!!

             

            Yes there is a dialog that says:

            Are you sure you want to remove the selected tables from the graph? This will break all items that use these tables, such as layouts, scripts, and calculations, but will not delete the underlying tables or their data. End of dialog.

             

            And this is not true whatsoever cause you get these message even when there's only one table left!!!

             

             

            i am thinking if i create a new layout and when it ask me what tables do i want then i can choose the duplicated one,  in order to get the current file table restored???

             

            ticked off haven't done it yet!! Kindna believing it won't work???

             

             

             

            r o b

             

             

             

            Structures from silence -- earths

            dynamic airwave -- changes all

            • 4. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
              karendweaver

              Rob

               

              Take a deep breath.  You haven't answered Michael's question.  Perhaps we all can help you but we need to understand what you did.  The long rants are not useful.

               

              If you deleted the table ONLY from the relationship graph and it still exists in your list of Tables on the Tables tab, then your data is NOT LOST. 

               

              Go to Manage Database, click on the Tables tab, and see if your table is listed there.  If so, there will be additional information, such as number of fields, and number of records in the table.  That is your data.  Add the table back to the relationship graph, create a layout based on the new table, and your data will "magically" reappear.

               

              The relationship graph only affects the DISPLAY of data, not the actual data, that is why FileMaker gives you the warning you listed - the underlying tables and their data are not deleted.

               

              It would probably be a good idea for you to understand how the relationship graph and tables work in FileMaker before you start deleting things willy-nilly. 

               

              On the other hand, if you deleted the table from the Tables list (not the relationship graph), then you did delete the entire table and it's data.  And then hopefully, you have been keeping a backup of your work, and you can go to that as crtopher suggested.   If you haven't been backing up, that is hardly FileMaker's fault.

               

              Karen

              • 5. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                listen2earth

                No!!! Not easy!! Cause fileMaker's Save feature not lets the user revert back to last Saved file !!! In FM preferences you get to choose up to 1 hour for saving your work but what good is this feature when something happens and you need to click on the last saved one 1 hour ago but clicking on it when it is open and your in it stuck with your error and cant revert back to the one, made 1 hour ago!!

                 

                That's a lot of work !!   1 hour !!! A lot of data not in backup!!

                 

                too bad know trash cans!! Just pull your work out of there.

                 

                 

                      

                r o b  'jesus Land Tidd'  lewis

                    architect visionary for

                    software & hardware

                    

                 

                        disabled War

                   Vet and Proud Of It

                 

                 

                Structures from silence -- earths

                dynamic airwave -- changes all

                • 6. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?

                  Hi Rob,

                   

                  Michael is asking the right questions and Karen is providing valuable input as well.

                   

                  Just go to your graph and create another occurrence with same name as the original one.  Your layout should then display the data again properly.  If not, you will have to re-point the layout to the new table occurrence and manually select each field and re-point them to the new occurrence. 

                   

                  One thing I do is colorize my 'primary (first) table occurrences and they are named simply the table name (and when working with other Developers), we sometimes capitalize the primary table occurrence.   As for whether FM should warn, I have no problem with it.  But there are a string of things much more important to address first.  This is just something you learn.  FM (rightfully) assumes a Developer knows what they are doing - and of course we usually do.  But stuff happens and we just need to fix it when it does and move on.

                  • 7. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                    listen2earth

                    Thank you very much!!

                     

                    i feel your right!! Yes!! Thats where i did delete the original table from the relationship graph cause thinking it was a duplication.

                     

                    Yet to initiate the hopeful restoration.

                          

                    r o b  'jesus Land Tidd'  lewis

                        architect visionary for

                        software & hardware

                        

                     

                            disabled War

                       Vet and Proud Of It

                     

                     

                    Structures from silence -- earths

                    dynamic airwave -- changes all

                    • 8. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                      Vaughan

                      listen2earth wrote:

                       

                      As a developer when working extensively designing creating making changes there's always a lot of deletions and the recreating o what has been deleted.

                       

                      Indeed there are a lot of changes when developing. As a developer you will have to cultivate a discipline of creating backups. There is no shortcut to this, there is no way around it, and there are no excuses: the developer is responsible for making backups for their own work.

                       

                      The process can be automated partially by setting up FMS and hosting the file, with a scheduled backup every 30 minutes or so. The Technet FMS developer license is very useful for this. For development FMS can be run on the same machine as FMP but a separate machine is even better.

                       

                      If not using FMS then get into the habit of backing up (saving a copy) of the solution files at the start of every session, then every hour, and before any major structural change is made or any looping script is run for the first time, and finally again at the end of the session. Then make sure these are backed up to somewhere else: I use Time Machine but it is only useful when the files are closed.

                       

                      Backing up is an essential part of the craft of being a developer.

                      • 9. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                        listen2earth

                        Thank you!!

                         

                        Yes!! It's all about tightening the loose around memory management!! Memory Blocks!! It all has to be kept together!! Or corruptions!!

                         

                        The word corruption all starts with the relationship graphs!! Period !!!

                         

                        This is!!!!! FileMaker weakness!!!!

                         

                        One can back up all they want but that doesn't fix the crack in the foundation.

                         

                        What i do in my developments is rid completely of the database when making major changes for having an entirely brand new database with all memory blocks all put together compacted by creating a New Copy of the solution compacted. Naming it as the original . And naming, what was, my working copy, to be my backup.

                         

                        FileMaker does not have a Revert GOback to last Saved Copy!!!!!

                         

                        This is crazy!!!! In their younger days they did!!!

                         

                        if there's any type if major changes good or bad all within an hour and decide need to just click my File in my folder to bring up WHAT WAS, "DOES NOT"!!!  Your stuck with WHAT IS!!!!

                         

                        yea, back up back up back up  all because Filemaker hasn't yet evolved memory manegement!!

                         

                        Soon there will not be any hard drives but only chips!!

                         

                        Hour loss of work is really going to cost me!!

                              

                        r o b  'jesus Land Tidd'  lewis

                            architect visionary for

                            software & hardware

                            

                         

                                disabled War

                           Vet and Proud Of It

                         

                         

                        Structures from silence -- earths

                        dynamic airwave -- changes all

                        • 10. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                          skywillmott

                          Just tried it out - deleting a table occurance from the relationship graph and also from the table list.... got a warning dialog on both occasions....

                          • 11. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                            listen2earth

                            Yes there is a dialog that says:

                            Are you sure you want to remove the selected tables from the graph? This will break all items that use these tables, such as layouts, scripts, and calculations, but will not delete the underlying tables or their data. End of dialog.

                             

                            And this is not true whatsoever cause you get these message even when there's only one table left!!!

                             

                             

                             

                                  

                            r o b  'jesus Land Tidd'  lewis

                                architect visionary for

                                software & hardware

                                

                             

                                    disabled War

                               Vet and Proud Of It

                             

                             

                            Structures from silence -- earths

                            dynamic airwave -- changes all

                            • 12. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                              comment

                              listen2earth wrote:

                               

                              And this is not true whatsoever cause you get these message even when there's only one table left!!!

                               

                              Rob,

                               

                              I am afraid you are very much mistaken: the warning dialog is precisely true, regardless of how many occurrences of the table are left on the graph.

                               

                              Have you solved your issue by now? If not, please pinpoint your difficulty. In any case, the ranting is not helping.

                              • 13. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                                LyndsayHowarth

                                Hi Rob,

                                 

                                Vaughan said "Backing up is an essential part of the craft of being a developer." Too true!

                                 

                                Another necessary skill is to learn about the product you are using and not bring unrealistic expectations about what it should do.

                                 

                                You said "FileMaker does not have a Revert GOback to last Saved Copy!!!!! This is crazy!!!! In their younger days they did!!!". No... I don't think they ever did... I have used every version of FileMaker since first released on the Mac in the late eighties. The only Revert I can ever recall was to do with leaving the Layout mode and not saving changes. I might be wrong... but I don't think so.

                                 

                                We are still not entirely clear about what state the file is now in... This is important. DON'T do anything more until you help us understand. I think you have panicked and caused yourself more grief than if you were able to calmly explain yourself.

                                 

                                Some questions here is "Are you on a Mac?" if so "Do you run Time Machine?" if not "Do you run automated backup software for your PC?". If you are running backup software, the first action you should have taken was to close the file and duplicate it and add the date&Time to it's name... then you could have restored the last backup from up to an hour ago but maybe more recently to check if it is adequate for proceeding... or whether the File you had been working on was more appropriate.

                                 

                                Karen gave you excellent advice for how you go about checking what data is still there... If it is, you can take an older copy which has most of the relationships... save a clone of it and import the data from the file you damaged the relationships table in.

                                 

                                You still haven't made it clear what your answer was to Michael's question. If you really don't understand what's required, I suggest you arrange with someone on the list to have a look at you files directly... either by sending them to one of us or arranging a time for someone to skype with you... It seems to me you need to stop and get some real help.

                                 

                                Please understand that most of us are here because we love FileMaker and what it can do for us and our clients. It is not the same as other database systems... and that is why it is an award winner and the easiest to learn and use. There are some excellent resources here which will help you understand more about relationships... which is your weakness... not FIleMakers'. This looks like it might be suited to your needs : https://fmdev.filemaker.com/docs/DOC-1181

                                 

                                - Lyndsay

                                • 14. Re: Why does FMA11 allow deletion of relationship table graph without warning dialog to save lost of all complete vital data?
                                  Mike_Mitchell

                                  Rob -

                                   

                                  I believe your discomfort may be coming from a misunderstanding. You believe your data are gone, when in fact, the ability to display your data has simply been broken.

                                   

                                  Look at a layout that was based on the table occurrence that was deleted. Do you see an indicator that says, "Table Missing" in the fields, such as shown below?

                                   

                                  layout.png

                                   

                                  Mike

                                  1 2 Previous Next