14 Replies Latest reply on Apr 9, 2012 9:26 AM by Lemmtech

    FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?

    simonclement

      Previous to FileMaker Pro 12 the following was the case in layout mode using a Mac.

       

      Holding the Shift key while dragging an object would constrain it's original alignment.

       

      Holding Option would create a copy of the object.

       

      Holding both Shift and Option would create a duplicate of the object constrained to the same vertical and horizontal orientation of the original object.

       

      FileMaker Pro 12 Shift and Option work as expected but holding both Shift and Option simply duplicate the object.

       

      This was a useful feature allowing you to quickly create a number of aligned duplicate objects.

       

      Is this now expected behviour or a bug?

       

       

       

       

      Simon Clement

      Arawak Database Solutions

      27 Osborne Drive

      Mt. Martha 3934

      www.arawak.com.au

        • 1. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
          Lemmtech

          Expected behavior this feature is gone in 12 for the time being it may come back just have to wait and see.

          • 2. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
            mark_scott

            Yes, you now have to option-drag to duplicate, release the object on its own recognizance, then click and drag again, using guides (or grid) to aid alignment to the original.  Here's hoping that, as Lemmtech suggested, the original behavior will eventually return.

             

            Mark

            • 3. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
              GordonShewach

              Just one more voice to say this was a highly valuable feature ... used it all the time.

               

              Gordon Shewach

              Desktop Services

              Ann Arbor, MI

              • 4. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                Betterhear

                In fact, because this most basic feature is gone without warning or explanation, I have decided to continue to develop in FileMaker Pro 11 Advanced. My next release will now be in the older .fp7 format instead of the .fmp12 format. This will cost FileMaker, Inc. hundreds of sales that might have been mandatory upgrades. I am quite dissapointed that we have to "wait and see." This basic lack of respect to developers is very unfortunate.

                 

                Mike Huskey

                • 5. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                  hschlossberg

                  I, too, am disappointed that this feature is gone, and that when CTRL/Option-dragging to duplicate, we are also unable to see the object in order to properly position it...until AFTER we release the mouse and specify the field.

                   

                  That said, Mike was kind of harsh where he said above that "basic lack of respect to developers is very unfortunate".  I think the engineers and product managers at FIleMaker are EXTREMELY respectful of developers.  There are a lot of new features and fixes in this release that are really more developer-oriented than user-oriented.  As a developer, I appreciate that they have enough respect for us that they would risk not having features with enough end-user appeal to make it an "easy sale"...in favor of having such a developer-heavy release.

                   

                  The new layout engine and features was a major, major undertaking.  These shortcuts that you and I now miss were more likely left out for technical reasons, which is why I expect that Lemmtech was correct above when he postulated that these features may come back if we give it a wait-and-see.

                   

                  Howard

                  • 6. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                    Vaughan

                    So why has nobody been screaming that OS X Lion has hyjacked the Control+Arrow keys so they can no longer be used to navigate between records?

                     

                    With regards to option-shift-drag being a useful feature... the new container fields in FMP 12 will more than make up for the loss.

                    • 7. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                      hschlossberg

                      I don't disagree with most of what you say, Egbert.  I'm not thrilled with how there are a few new features that I consider to be only half-baked and, like you, I blame forces at FileMaker that are more in the realm of "Marketing" then those who we work with as developers. 

                       

                      But then, I'm not always sure "blame" is the right term.  It has been two full years since FM11 was release; time between versions is typically more like 12-18 months.  This says to me that 12 was a bigger than usual undertaking and that they had to draw the lines somewhere on what to fix, where to limit scope, etc.  At some point, of course, money DOES become an issue.  Longer times between releases means less revenues during those periods.  And like it or not, throwing all desired features into one release means there is little but bug fixes for the next release, which is not a money-making proposition.  I probably would have prioritized things differently then those in marketing, but I wouldn't say I blame them for making decisions that may be better-informed for their overall strategy then what I think.

                       

                      As for your specific criticism of CSS being half-baked...perhaps.  But it may be difficult to create an editing tool when you are still making tweaks to the format and layout engine.  They WERE working on something for those two years between releases (and I'm sure they started on the layout engine changes long before the release of 11, so more than two years! ), so should they have waited another year to release so they could build an editor as well?  For help with editing or adding CSS libraries, a good starting point might be the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPU7lvCAlL0

                       

                      Howard

                      • 8. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                        Vaughan

                        I was told by somebody in FMI that they work 2 to 3 versions ahead: right now the FM 12 team is finishingup the last of their parties and going into maintenence mode; the feature set for FM 13 is already done and being worked on for completion, and FM 14 is in the planning stages.

                        • 9. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                          beverly

                          And "somebody" always has the best information...

                           

                          -- sent from my iPhone4 --

                          Beverly Voth

                          --

                          • 10. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                            PeterWindle

                            So, let me get this right...

                             

                            FileMaker Inc have release a new product, which...

                             

                            1. REMOVES some pre-esisting functionality (see thread above)

                            2. Could possibly SLOW solutions down, despite claims that it should improve performance (see other threads)

                            3. Requires ALL Copies of FileMaker on a network, including the server to be UPGRADED AND the files to be converted

                            4. Offers a few new features, but essentially provides NO IMMEDIATE benefit apart from 'speed' increase ??? (without additional work)

                            5. Gives Go users a MUCH better experience, providing very nice features FOR FREE, that you can NOT get in a bound solution.

                             

                            so.... why should anyone upgrade?

                            Oh, that would be because you may NOT be able to get version 11 for much longer?? Umm, I don't mean to sound rude, but this is beginning to feel a lot like dealing with the Mafia, not a software company.

                             

                            Above all, I understand the need to change, keeping software in-line with hardware and new technological requirements, but really...? PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THAT THERE IS A GOOD REASON to convince my clients to upgrade...? PLEASE! My lively-hood depends on it!! I want to feed my family and FileMaker is the only thing I'm good at!

                            • 11. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                              ibrahim_bittar

                              Hi Peter

                               

                              I have to respectfully disagree with you.

                               

                              In my case, I created a new solution with FM12 entirely FROM WAN. This means that I created an empty file, immediately uploaded to a virtual server in San Francisco (I'm in León, México) and started working. I'm not talking about a trivial solution, I'm talking about a fully fledged ERP.

                               

                              Check this video:

                               

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEgdqYEjTcQ

                               

                              The speed access has been so good that my experience compared to FM11 on LAN has been seamless. It feels the same to use a FM11 solution on LAN than using a FM12 solution on WAN.

                               

                              With the FM11 solution it took about 1-2 minutes to completely load (yeah, I know, it's big). With FM12 it went down to 14 SECONDS. With my iPad 1 it takes 25 seconds. If that's not improvement then I don't know what improvement is...

                               

                              Every time a new version is released there are lots of people complaining about lost functionality. I remember years ago reading many posts about people complaining because the align dialog box was not modal anymore, or people complaining about the new palette on FM11.

                               

                              All those complaints have a name IMHO: resistance to change.

                               

                              With this new release there some things that annoy me, Ifelt disappointed because there were some features that never made it to the final release, there are some new tools that I don't fully understand yet (like the ExecuteSQL function) but what I've seen so far has left me amazed.

                               

                              I've been playing with the theme thing, using a CSS editor and tweaking properties and so on. Though FM12 responds to the new modified theme it is still erratic to say the least. I believe that FMI has not released editable themes as a feature because of that. Nevertheless, despite the erratic behavior, it has been a tremendous time saver.

                               

                              I invite to all of us to take a deep breath, wipe our FM11 minds and start using FM12 just like we never heard of FileMaker before. You'll be amazed with the results.

                               

                              Saludos

                               

                              Ibrahim Bittar Torres

                              Director General

                              Eikonsys, S.A. de C.V.

                              FileMaker 10 Certified Developer

                              http://www.eikonsys.com

                              FileMaker Business Alliance

                              • 12. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                                GordonShewach

                                Absolutely, Ibrahim. There is a TON of new features to like and love in FMP 12. And I know that with time more will be revealed as developers figure out ways to harness new functionality in ways not yet apparent.

                                 

                                I'm particularly excited to hear about your WAN speed improvements. I'm anxious to test this out with a 7 gig db I have. As mobile devices and traveling employees become more prevalent, WAN speed is huge. Free FM Go makes this even more compelling.

                                 

                                Thanks to "maintenance," I don't have to worry about selling my clients on the upgrade. They already paid for it at a rate less than if they purchased each upgrade without maintenance. I just have to install it. This is another feature of the way FMI does business that makes my job easier.

                                 

                                Back to the original point about <Shift>+<Option> not working, I suspect it wasn't a development choice. I think it's just functionality that broke in the upgrade. Certainly, most of us have upgraded client solutions only to get calls about something that used to work fine and now is broken. It's the nature of our world. You can't regression test EVERYthing.

                                 

                                Gordon Shewach

                                Desktop Services

                                Ann Arbor, MI

                                • 13. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                                  Lemmtech

                                  Peter I have to say you "hit the nail on the head" so to speak or were "spot on" on some of our brit friends like to say. I can't see a single reason why I would recommend this upgrade to my clients for all the reasons you stated. From my customers point of view were is the "killer" feature of 12 what will it do for them the minute they upgrade except slow things down, nothing I can see. I had high hopes for this release but they have been dashed unfortunately. Here's hoping 13 gets released soner rather then later the cleans up the mess but until then I'll stick with 11 and "down grade" any new clients to 11 for as long as possible.

                                  • 14. Re: FileMaker 12 changed function of Option + Shift keys in layout mode?
                                    hschlossberg

                                    PeterWIndle said:

                                    PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THAT THERE IS A GOOD REASON to convince my clients to upgrade...? PLEASE! My lively-hood depends on it!! I want to feed my family and FileMaker is the only thing I'm good at!

                                     

                                    For some clients, WAN speed is very important, and for them I would say it is worth the upgrade.  Otherwise, there are a lot of new features and fixes that are primarily developer-oriented and that you may wish to take advantage.  I have told all my clients that they won't be upgrading to 12 for a minimum of seven months (approx version 12v3), and even then I think we will need to justify some end-user benefit to make it worthwhile.  But just because you don't see any good reasons to upgrade should not effect your livelihood.  You still have FM11 and continued maintenance on your existing clients, no?

                                     

                                     

                                    ibrahim_bittar said:

                                    Every time a new version is released there are lots of people complaining about lost functionality. I remember years ago reading many posts about people complaining because the align dialog box was not modal anymore, or people complaining about the new palette on FM11.

                                     

                                    All those complaints have a name IMHO: resistance to change.

                                     

                                    Yes, I am one of those people Ibrahim refers to.  I am resistant to change when the benefit is not clear.  After using FM11 for two years now, I still am not clear on whether Inspector is a boon or bust.  I know that I STILL HATE having to use it, and I will only use it if there is absolutely no other way to accomplish what I need (i.e. keyboard shortcut, format toolbar, context menu, Format menu, etc).  It STILL slows me down while I'm developing.

                                     

                                    Are there benefits to the new layout engine? Absolutely there are to the Bob-the-Boatbuilders who would otherwise be left with ugly layouts; absolutely there is benefit to the FileMaker "platform" itself as FMP doesn't have to be seen as an ugly little database anymore; absolutely the benefits get even stronger in FM13 or 14, when new features are added to actually take advantage of the new layout engine; and absolutely there are some nice features for fulltime FM developers like me.  But I just don't like being given shiny new nice-to-haves at the expense of losing some of the older core functionalities that help me do my job faster.  11 slowed me down and 12 will slow me down even more.

                                     

                                     

                                    GordonShewach said:

                                    Thanks to "maintenance," I don't have to worry about selling my clients on the upgrade. They already paid for it at a rate less than if they purchased each upgrade without maintenance. I just have to install it. This is another feature of the way FMI does business that makes my job easier.

                                     

                                    And because of "maintenance", my customers know that my decisions and recommendations will not be strictly based on cost, but on value, benefit and usability.  Lucky you that you just have to install it for them.  My clients have large IT organizations who need to install everything across all clients, make available a second server box for testing, and I need to fix graphic and other still-existing conversion issues, transfer data across dozens of files and hundreds of tables (likely a 10-20 hour process), update user openers/shortcuts, and then get everyone going simultaneously first thing on a Monday morning.  And for what client/user-oriented benefit (other than increased WAN speed and theoretical stability)?