1 2 Previous Next 17 Replies Latest reply on Jun 26, 2012 10:00 PM by Lemmtech

    Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"


      Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"



      Create box on layout. In layout mode, ensure the box has no fill.



      When I click inside the box, the box is selected (as if it has a fill).

      I expect this behavior:

      Box has no fill and I click inside, the box should not be selected. This is a change from previous versions of FileMaker (FM10 and prior).


      Is there a keyboard shortcut or property or setting that will change it so that I can click inside a rectangle with no fill?




        • 1. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

          I guess that you are doing something wrong.


          clear background.png


          Here is a field, the cursor is entered into the field and it is still transparent.

          I moved it down to the footer, so that you can see that it is not only because it has the same fill colour as the background.


          How did you do it


          FileMaper Pro 12v1, Mac OS X 10.7

          • 2. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

            Thanks for the reply, but I may not have been specific enough in my description. I am talking about the rectangle tool in layout mode, not fields in browse mode.


            When in layout mode, make a rectangle with "No Fill". You should be able to click in the middle of it, without selecting the rectangle while in layout mode, as there is no fill. This was the previous behavior as in FM10.

            • 3. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

              I think this is the result of the new CSS coding and I don't think there is a work around. Just one of the many annoying new "features" of layout mode in 12...

              • 4. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                This change of behaviour is a documented in the help:


                Home > Using FileMaker Pro > FileMaker Pro basics > Converting files from FileMaker Pro 11 and earlier > Layout mode changes and improvements


                bullet point 5 under Behavior Changes


                and as far as I know there's no way round it





                • 5. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                  Well, well, well: I actually found i rather strange in previous FileMaker versions (and in other applications) that the behaviour of a geometrical figure changed whether it was filled or not. So just remember putting it behind everything else if it is having other elements within it.

                  Would we really want to "have a way around" this?

                  • 6. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                    Carsten, I agree - I find the v12 behaviour more consistent - but it seems that Zorba does want a way round it

                    • 7. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                      I guess I am one of the old timers, been using FMP for ~20 years, so I am resistant to change.


                      The main benefit I lost with this change is selection and dragging in layout mode. Layout mode is where I spend most of my time.

                      A typical thing I do is visually separate fields by use of the rectangle tool. (a simple example attached). This means that I have lots of other objects inside a rectangle. When I try to adjust position of those objects, I constantly select the rectangle because it is no longer an empty rectangle, but rather a filled rectangle with a transparent property added to the fill. (For me "No Fill" = "Hollow" as that has been its behavior for quite some time. Glass is transparent and you can't go through it. No glass in a window = nothing is there, like No Glass and you can go through it.)


                      Rectangle Tool selection.PNG

                      Here are scenarios that just got more difficult:


                      1. Selecting all objects: Instead of dragging a selection around the objects, I now need to Select everything (including the rectangle) then unselect the rectangle. I used to be able to click inside the rectangle and then drag around the objects inside and that is what will be selected. I can no longer do that because clicking inside the rectangle actually selects it and when you go to move the selection around the objects, you end up dragging the rectangle. So now I need to find a space outside the rectangle to start my selection. But that is not as easy as it sounds, as sometimes there are nested rectangles (as in some FMP Sample files). So I end up Shift clicking all of the objects - this takes forever .


                      2. Selecting only a portion of the objects inside a rectangle. Same problems as above, so I just end up shift clicking everything. What used to take no time at all to select objects now results in 5 or more shift clicks. A real time waster. Productivity going down. (on a side note, the way that FMP displays feedback on what is selected and what isn't is horrible. You can easily miss objects as now the handles encompass the extreme boundaries of all the objects instead of the individual ones. It was a great indicator of what was selected. Very easy to see.)


                      3. Rectangles with No Fill wouldn't interfere with objects. Now the rectangle must be sent to the back. You used to be able to select an object inside a No Fill Rectangle. Now When you try and click on the object you actually select the "No Fill" of the rectangle. So to adjust an object in that configuration I had to move the rectangle, make the adjustment.


                      4. In FMP10, a No Fill Rectangle when the front most object would have this behavior. Layout mode = can select objects inside the rectangle. Will not select rectangle itself. Browse mode = Objects can be selected. Buttons pushed etc. In both cases, there really is no fill.

                      In FMP12, a No Fill Rectangle when the front most object now has this behavior. Layout mode = can't select objects inside the rectangle. Selects rectangle instead. Browse mode = Objects can be selected. Buttons pushed etc. Layout mode is no longer WYSIWYG. No longer consistent.


                      So yes, I want a way around it for the above reasons. It makes manipulating certain layouts quicker. How do you guys handle these scenarios? Do you not use rectangles in this way?

                      • 8. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                        Sure, you have to have the rectangle behind its enclosed objects (and if you have overlapping rectangles you have to layer them appropriately) but I don't consider that much of a hardship and having done it I don't really find any difficulty


                        To select objects: lock the rectangle, hold Command (Mac), click within the rectangle and drag round the required objects





                        • 9. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                          There is another reason this functionality was helpful ... on Windows, overlapping or stacked (and even touching) objects can produce more flash/jidder during redraw but by using transparent fill, you could achieve borders without the flash side-effect.  On the other hand, it was difficult if you wanted to select a transparent rectangle button) with no border because you had to fish around for the edge of them. 


                          Win some; lose some.  And win again because 12 appears to flash less than 11 (at least on Windows XP) so we are still one up!  :^)

                          • 10. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                            I agree totally with Tom's latest post: send your rectangle to the back and lock it!

                            • 11. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                              Instead of a rectangle with no fill, draw four lines and group them. Takes an extra few seconds to set up, but in my quick test it provides the result you are after.

                              • 12. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                                Yes I find this new behavior along with a number of other changes in the layout enviornment difficult to get used to especially in converted solutions and as a result I'm not a big fan of how layout mode behaves in 12. I'm sure like everything else about 12 you'll get use to it eventually but it's makes it frustrating when you have been used to doing things a certain way for such a long time.

                                • 13. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"

                                  Thanks for everyone's comments.


                                  So I started trying to get to know ctrl-alt-L and shift-ctrl-alt-L,(my fingers are getting a workout, but they are more limber now) but the more I use it the more things I find annoying that the rectangle doesn't respect the "No Fill"


                                  Pasting other objects.

                                  Let's say I copy/cut objects from another part of a layout. I click where I want them to be pasted (as in FM10), If the place I click happens to be inside of a rectangle, then it will paste them where I cut/copy them from, not where I clicked. (Upon further testing it doesn't matter if the rectangle is no fill or not, or locked or not) In FM10, if I clicked inside a No Fill rectangle, it would paste where I clicked.


                                  Aligning objects

                                  I have a rectangle, locked and in the Back. I have objects inside of it. I drag select the objects inside of it and then Distribute Space Vertically.

                                  They all squish down to the bottom of the rectangle.

                                  If I now select each object individually, then Distribute Space Vertically, all works fine. Now before you say, "You selected another object that you didn't know you did when you drag selected" - Go ahead and try it and you will know what I mean. I think the drag select "secretly" selects the locked rectangle when you Drag Select.

                                  Same thing happens aligning Horizontally too.


                                  Copy and Paste

                                  Here is why I think it secretly selects it. When I Drag Select the objects inside a locked rectangle, then Copy and then Paste, I get another Rectangle(unlocked). Even though the Locked Rectangle is selected when I Copy, it shows up in the Clipboard when I paste.



                                  Drag Select the same contents inside the locked rectangle. Now try and change the fill color. FileMaker throws an warning message that the Fill can't be applied because some of the objects are locked. (meaning I selected the Locked Rectangle, even though no handles indicated such).


                                  There are probably other functions that behave in this way, where FileMaker secretly selects the locked rectangle, but doesn't indicate visually, but I haven't gone through them all yet.


                                  Needless to say, I have no problem with a No Fill with 100% transparency, but I would also like to have back the No Fill with hollow insides like it used to be.

                                  • 14. Re: Boxes(rectangle tool) Doesn't respect "No Fill property"



                                    Pasting 'on top of' other objects is certainly different, and more problematic, in v12 compared to previous versions, but, as you suggest, this is not specific to no-fill rectangles.


                                    As for your other points: from the behaviour you describe it seems that you are drag-selecting without holding Command (Mac), in which case the locked rectangle will indeed be part of the selection. (Although this selection of the rectangle is not 'secret' it is perhaps not obvious - the rectangle has a blue border but no handles). If you Command–drag to select, I think you will get the behaviour you require for aligning, copy/pasting and changing attribute(s).





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