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    Why all of the FileMaker hate?

    c0nsilience

      I realize that I don't post on here much, but I've been a FM developer for a long time and I'm in no way affiliated with FileMaker or Apple.

       

      What I've noticed, trolling through some of the FM 13 threads is that there is a lot of, excuse the french, bitching from a few individuals...sardonic comments that tend to pop up pretty consistenly in most of the threads.

       

      My question is this: why?

       

      What's the point? Sure, there are bugs with every piece of software running on every OS you'll ever use, but to lambast a really solid and quite development friendly platform is ignorant. FileMaker does what it is designed to do quite nicely. Rapid development with mobile functionality isn't the easiest beast to conquer. Are there any former Oracle or SQL devs lurking? I'm sure they'll back me up when I insist that FileMaker is easily the best and one of the easiest development platforms to use. It fills an awesome niche in the market and works really, really well. How do you guys deal with your clients or end users?

       

      If functionality is an issue, start digging deeper. Cost? Have you priced out Oracle? Come on. It's 2013 and nothing is cheap. It takes a strong team to pull off software development of this caliber. A team, I think, that should be lauded for all of their hard work and efforts. Give the team a break and they will probably be a bit more apt to helping in the future and implmenting features (bear in mind, the features have to work for the greater whole and not just you to justifity the hours spent on their existence).

       

      Again, this isn't a missle directed at everyone, as there are a lot of really intelligent and creative individuals on here that are accomplishing intelligent and creative things. Naysayers will be naysayers and those that believe they can't, usually don't.

       

      Just my two cents (from a very satisfied FM dev)

        • 1. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
          PointInSpace

          I don't see hate.  I see legitimate concerns and criticisms.  We've got

          plenty of our own here right now.

           

               - John

           

           

          I realize that I don't post on here much, but I've been a FM

          developer for a long time and I'm in no way affiliated with FileMaker

          or Apple.

           

          What I've noticed, trolling through some of the FM 13 threads is that

          there is a lot of, excuse the french, bitching from a few

          individuals...sardonic comments that tend to pop up pretty

          consistenly in most of the threads.

           

          My question is this: why?

           

          What's the point?  Sure, there are bugs with every piece of software

          running on every OS you'll ever use, but to lambast a really solid

          and quite development friendly platform is ignorant.  FileMaker does

          what it is designed to do quite nicely.  Rapid development with

          mobile functionality isn't the easiest beast to conquer.  Are there

          any former Oracle or SQL devs lurking?  I'm sure they'll back me up

          when I insist that FileMaker is easily the best and one of the

          easiest development platforms to use.  It fills an awesome niche in

          the market and works really, really well.  How do you guys deal with

          your clients or end users?

           

          If functionality is an issue, start digging deeper.  Cost?  Have you

          priced out Oracle?  Come on.  It's 2013 and nothing is cheap.  It

          takes a strong team to pull off software development of this caliber.

          A team, I think, that should be lauded for all of their hard work and

          efforts. Give the team a break and they will probably be a bit more

          apt to helping in the future and implmenting features (bear in mind,

          the features have to work for the greater whole and not just you to

          justifity the hours spent on their existence).

           

          Again, this isn't a missle directed at everyone, as there are a lot

          of really intelligent and creative individuals on here that are

          accomplishing intelligent and creative things.  Naysayers will be

          naysayers and those that believe they can't, usually don't.

           

          Just my two cents (from a very satisfied FM dev)

           

           

           

          --

          • 2. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
            Paul Jansen

            I love FileMaker and the new features of 13 and have been 'playing' with the preview in anticipation. 

             

            I guess I'm just rather shocked at the magnitude of the increase in pricing for FMGo and Webdirect (compared with IWP) connections.

             

            I expected price increases, just not this much.  As a consequence I will need to completely rethink developments I have been planning for customers (especially version 11 IWP upgrades), but I guess that is my problem rather than FileMaker incs....

             

            I suspect that even FileMaker have some anxiety about the price increases as they have elected to change from headlining annual to monthly pricing.  I don't mind paying for stuff, but tmaking FMGo12 free and then charging this much for connections in the next release is surely going to be taken badly by some customers - especially those who have deployed significant numbers of iOS clients within their organisation.

             

            I really do hope that 13 is a success for FileMaker as it is a great product/devleopment environment, I just worry that the pricing will stal the mobile market.

             

            Regards

             

            Paul Jansen

            • 3. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
              jormond

              I agree with John. Most of the time it's just Developers/Users expressing frustration or concern.

               

              Though, I admit, there are a few individuals that seem to complain no matter what you give them.  If they had a list of 100 desired features, and you delivered 95 of them...they would complain about the missing 5.  hehe

               

              But for the most part, from those candid discussions, I learn where some of the limits are of the platform.  Sometimes they are real, sometimes they are self-imposed, sometimes it just requires a new approach. I, as well as many other on the forums, have tried not to read emotion into the words. In type, words are just words...void of emotion.

               

              @apjltd - yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about the Concurrent connections thing yet, but at the same time as has been pointed out, WebDirect is a decent alternative to a thin client and is license-for-license slightly less expensive than the full software.  But it's worlds better than IWP, so I guess I can't complain about the $$ as much. But it certainly does affect the approach to some non-profit and other guest-style approaches I was looking at.

              • 4. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                jimahopkins

                I love Filemaker and develop for k-12 education.  Recently I had 44 teachers all submitting assessment data over an IWP solution.  All of them putting in their respective school information in one solution.  Now I will need the largest licensed server solution in 13.  They'll all have a better experience but I can't afford that in my area of Northeast Nebraska.  And then the question remains how long can one stay in the filemaker 12 arena.  I love what has been demonstrated in 13 but horse power and increased cost of service when you do have 50 or more concurent users in 25 differing applications, is a bit worrysome. 

                • 5. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                  jormond

                  I hear that.  I haven't seen the pricing for Server with unlimited connections, which does exist and is referenced in the documentation. I'll be curious to see the pricing on that...because the annual cost of 50 connections to server is outrageously high.

                  • 6. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                    jbrown

                    My school has a site license and I spoke with FM today. They let me know that under our current contract we will have "Unrestricted" connections to FMS 13.

                    I made sure that when we renew the contract we would still have these unlimited connections and they said yes.

                     

                    So maybe the "Unrestricted" comes in a site license or some other package.

                    • 7. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                      jimahopkins

                      Thanks, Jeremy,  for offering hope.  We do too.  Most of my employees (85) use their Filemaker Pro to access the server but my schools all use the web to interface with their data.  I do have many who use their IOS device to connect using Go.  That will be different as well.  But I still love Filemaker and always look forward to developing.

                      • 8. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                        c0nsilience

                        I agree.  I currently have an international manufacturing client that

                        has 200 users on Pro connecting to Server.  It is essentially an ERP and

                        a lot of sub-processes.  Compared to Oracle, FileMaker is definitely the

                        way to go.  I love it and so far I really like 13 a lot!

                         

                        jimahopkins <mailto:noreply@filemaker.com>

                        December 3, 2013 at 3:18 PM

                        <https://fmdev.filemaker.com/index.jspa>

                        created by jimahopkins

                        <https://fmdev.filemaker.com/people/jimahopkins> in /General/ - View

                        the full discussion <https://fmdev.filemaker.com/message/131215#131215>

                         

                        • 9. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                          Stephen Huston

                          I've got to agree that the 50 Connections to server 13 looks pretty steep. My last in-house position was at a place which was using IWP for about half the staff of 100, those who needed only access to a small part of their FMP system. The annual pricing plan makes it a bit more tolerable, but still very high compared to Server Advanced with its unlimited connections!

                           

                          I can tell the new model is intended to provide revenue to FMI for users who are not paying for FM Client software (Pro) by charging for connection from both Go and web browsers (although one page of FMI's site sounds like both Pro and Go connections are free, though that is contradicted elsewhere re Go).

                           

                          I can't really blame them for wanting to charge users who benefit from their software by connecting if they aren't already paying for a client version, but the new pricing seems so much higher than for prior versions, I fear they may hit a wall with many businesses deciding not to upgrade for as many years as possible.

                           

                          Still, if we find that the new WebDirect support of the FMPro interface is adequate, we could see this model competing very well, but FMI might find themselves selling Server and some FMP13Advanced for development, and watching sales of Pro drop off in favor of WebDirect connections.

                           

                          It's hard to guess this early which way will be the real bargain, but it's clearly changing the groundrules for FileMaker product licensing this time.

                          • 10. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                            DavidJondreau

                             Thank you! I left working thinking I need to write a post like this, and now when I'm about to, it's already there.


                            A big thanks to FMI for producing an excellent product! This is the final leg of the modern "three legged stool" of desktop, mobile, and web.

                            • 11. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                              MarcDolley

                              I can understand that some people are upset at the new concurrent pricing for WebDirect access. It is a bit of a shock. We don't have any clients who are using IWP as we actively discouraged them from using it. However, if we did, I would make the argument that they were essentially using FileMaker for free and now they have to pay for it. While they may have to pay for it, they're gaining a lot of extra functionality and still saving a lot of money over buying licenses for FM Pro. I know a lot of developers encouraged clients to use IWP in the past because it was cheaper for the client. If I was the cynical type, I would say that some did so just so they could charge the customer more for development, depriving FileMaker Inc of revenue. But I would never say that. I guess it all comes down to how good you are at selling your services with licenses as part of an overall package.

                               

                              The FileMaker Go issue is a different matter altogether. FMI released Go 11 and charged for it. Then they released Go 12 and gave it away for free. Now they're still giving away Go 13, but charging you to use it. I think this is deceptive to say the least and will almost certainly result in backlash from both customers and developers. I get that FMI had to 'monetize' Go, but I believe many will see this as a bait and switch exercise. I've no doubt that in the coming days, the **** will hit the proverbial fan. I certainly hope FMI's PR people have their arguments ready.

                              • 12. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                                Stephen Huston

                                FM Go 13 is still completely free when using local data on the device.

                                 

                                So, well thought-out syncing (rather than always-on server connections)  greatly reduces the number of concurrent connections required for most businesses to far fewer than the total number of  Go device users (i.e., if your delivery people only sync for a couple of minutes three or four times each day, there is a good chance that a handful of concurrent connections would be adequate for dozens of users).

                                • 13. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                                  jasongodoy

                                  100% right Marc.  I feel the same way.  It's bee interesting reading the various reactions of the FM Dev crowd about this new release, but I can't help but think that charging for connections (especially for iOS) feels like a bait and switch exercise for all the reasons you mentioned.

                                   

                                  From the FM Store Online Volume Pricing

                                  FileMaker Server (New Purchase) = 1,044 + tax

                                  FileMaker Server (New Purchase w/5 Connections) = 1,944 + tax WOW!

                                   

                                  Each connection license costs $188.80 (No printing (Web Direct), no Save As PDF (WebDirect), 50 user max (Web Direct) unless you have the fastest machine on earth, which is another $5,000+).  FMI, go back to charging for FMGo at a cheaper rate (remember we can't create anything with FM Go, so don't charge too much! ) and cut the price of WebDirect connections in half (since we can't create anything with WebDirect either).  Another strategy they could've tried was going for desktop license volume by charging much less for a "thin" FileMaker Pro client that you can't create databases in.  Let FileMaker Pro Advanced be the only authoring tool and keep the price the same.  Makes sense to me.  Many developers would have been over the moon happy about a cheaper "thin" FileMaker Pro client for the desktop and would more than likely have purchased more licenses during this WebDirect transition period.  As it stands, unfortunately, the barrier to entry to the FileMaker Platform just went way up.

                                   

                                  I think everyone on these forums fully understands that FMI needs to make money and charge for the WebDirect technology that they've built.  However, lumping iOS device connections in with WebDirect connections is something I don't feel is the right strategy for growing the FileMaker platform (especially as mobile grows and becomes more mature).  If connection packs were cheaper, that may make a difference, but who knows.  It'll be interesting to see if the developer frustration on the forums will translate to any financial impact with FMI going forward.

                                   

                                  Another thought; why didn't FMI adopt a sliding rule for purchasing connections?  (i.e. 5 connections at $188.80/ea, 10 connections at $158.80/ea, so on and so forth).  Sticker shock is an appropriate reaction to what FMI has presented us, but...bottomline is, if you're really upset with the pricing structure, vote with your wallets and don't upgrade.

                                  • 14. Re: Why all of the FileMaker hate?
                                    AndyCohen

                                    Lotsa stuff here about the cost of 50 concurrent connections... Instead of the annual cost of the server license which is what??? around $6 per user... IMO you should be looking at the cost of the HW reqs...  Holy BitHog Batman!!

                                    "

                                    27-5016 GB12-Core

                                    "

                                    Remember that's per FIFTY concurrent users!

                                     

                                     

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