1 2 Previous Next 21 Replies Latest reply on Dec 19, 2013 8:35 PM by argwallace

    Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?

    argwallace

      Hello,

       

      Please feel free to correct me if I am missing something (which I hope is the case!).

       

      Since my development in FMA11, 12 and now 13, I have been deeply disappointed in the improvements made (or lack thereof) in the Runtime portion of the program. I do realize that not all developers need the Runtimes as an integral part to their developement. However, I am in the situation where my development very much depends upon it. Though I am excited for the new features in 13, I have yet to see ANY improvements in the Runtime offerings. In fact, old errors continue to persist in this new version. What gives?

       

      For example, creating a runtime on Mac causes certain internal language files to be locked by the OS. This has been happening since version 11 and they still can't fix the packaging process to avoid this? Give me a break.

       

      Charts and PDFs are not available directly from within the runtime. What? Still no way to build this into the runtime or at least secure the licenses for the royalty free runtimes? How many PDF creators are there out there. There has to be a way. Why hasn't this been addressed? FM Go suppors charts and that's free....

       

      Has there been any enhancements to the Runtimes? If I'm missing it, please help me out. If not, I guess I'll have to wait for FMA14 or maybe even 15.

       

      Regards,


      S

        • 1. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
          argwallace

          Not to continue my diatribe but I didn't even mention the current issue when using AppleScript commands within Runtimes. I've been getting errors with these ever since Mavericks, though the FMA13 and 12 versions con run the same files with no errors. This tells me that the Runtimes are being neglected and I fear for their continued inclusion in the future.

          • 2. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
            taylorsharpe

            I have no inside connections with FileMaker and am just an FBA developer.  But FM's focus lately has been on mobile and cloud computing and they are silent about any runtime improvements (not a single session at Devcon on it this year).  I assume this is because, as you have surmized, it is not something they are working on and I would not expect it in the future.  I think they see WebDirect as taking place of runtime solutions and will probably hold on to runtime solutions until the client gets upgraded to 64 bit and drop it at that time in that they won't want to spend money on the conversion.  But since there is little need for the client to go to 64 bit, runtimes may hang on for a while longer, but I would not expect anything new and I would be encouraging such clients to move towards Cloud and mobile solutions.  Maybe someone has different info and will want to speak up.  Basically, since runtimes don't have networking, I haven't worked on one in several years. 

            • 3. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
              argwallace

              I believe you are correct. I am seeing the writing on the wall already. I think webdirect is great but still not an option (at this point) for our organization. Though I can imagine that this may be the direction that we'll have to move into. Runtimes do seem to becoming a thing of the past and the lack of attention given to them only confirms it.

              • 4. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                mrwatson-gbs

                Apart from the initial purchase of a filemaker client FileMaker makes no money out of runtimes.

                 

                Software-as-a-service is replacing box-software

                • 5. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                  intex

                  Although the cloud and software-as-a-service is in everyone´s ear, not every customer wants to have it out of several reasons:

                   

                  - people prefer buying and owning instead of renting software

                  - people want their data in their own offices on their own harddisks and not anywhere else

                  - not everybody has highspeed internet and mobile internet is not always fast and/or available

                  - not everybody needs mobility all the time or the access to data from everywhere

                  - not everybody and not every application needs synch and networking

                  - not everybody wants x gadgets plus using them all for the same task - one MS Surface might make a desktop, notebook and tablet obsolete.

                  - there will be offices and desktop computers even in the future

                   

                  This is, where the runtime comes in.

                   

                  Hopefully, FM Inc. will not stop thinking about the runtime, although one can get the impression, that it is handled like IWP was.

                   

                  Indeed, I don´t understand why the runtimes can´t have charting and PDF generation - yes, the licensing. But how can free PDF writers then exist ? How can charting take place in FM GO ? These arguments don´t hit the point.

                   

                  And again: Poor FileMaker has to make money. Sure, who not. But aren´t they getting paid for FM Advanced ?

                  • 6. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                    jormond

                    Intex - agreed that not everyone wants to rent their software. I am one of them. And I agree that not everyone has high-speed/reliable internet, including some of the developers that participate on the forums. And not everything needs the mobility and access everywhere.

                     

                    But you seem to get stuck on this licensing thing. It was explained well in the other thread. FileMaker doesn't build that stuff themselves. Free PDF writers are not the same as built in PDF creation. You want PDF creation, package a PDF writer with your runtime, or direct the user to install one. Then they can just print to PDF. Or you can do as some other developers have done, roll your own. You CAN write a PDF file yourself. FMI isn't going to speand less time on the Platform just to include PDF or Excel exports.

                     

                    You could if you wanted, write the code, send it to FM, offer to support it and update it...and do a licensing deal with FM that includes Runtimes. As for charting...the license agreements are usually very specific. It includes Go, Pro. Doesn't include Runtimes. That is very common practice in any Software-writing-Software.

                     

                    And in the end, SAAS is going to slowly replace 'most' conventional software packages.

                    • 7. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                      karl@karlp.com

                      I'd like to start using FM with a runtime, but can't find any information on version 13. Is it possible to create multi-user versions of the software with the run time?

                      • 8. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                        jormond

                        No. Runtimes are single user only.

                        • 9. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                          thebridge

                          Karl

                          You cannot network the runtimes

                          Robert

                          • 10. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                            worldcloud

                            FIleMaker historically addresses a few issues with FileMaker Pro, Pro Advanced, Server, and Go with each version; so it does not shock me to discover that single-user, non-networked FileMaker runtimes have not meritted the attention of FileMaker development staff; however, one 'possible' aurgument to update the runtime engine is to promote 'light versions' of 'pro' apps which would require Pro or WebDirect.

                             

                            This 'sell me more power' approach has been used time and time again by all the AppStore vendors. In an ideal world, we would be able to place runtime solutions in the Mac AppStore and/or  Windows Marketplace, and if we really wanted to dream the iOS AppStore.

                             

                            Free runtimes offer little incentive to FileMaker unless they promote new users to the FileMaker Platform.

                             

                            Follow the money.... right now the money is mobile & cloud, but with a few adjustments runtimes could play a role in a 'broadening' the market for FMI and FileMaker solutions.

                             

                             

                            ---

                             

                            I had a FIleMaker developer quote me numbers that stated every 18 minutes, Apple made more money from the AppStore than FileMaker, Inc. generates in a year. I'm not sure I believe these numbers as FileMaker and Apple don't generally publish much about their financials; but it is plausible to assume that the revenue from the AppStore is 'crazy'. While most would belive that FileMaker's growth to be stable, profitable, but much more in-line with the 'real-world'.

                             

                            Another way I've heard this explained, is if one where to get Cannon's fastest color copier, fill the scanner with $100 bills; it would not be able to make money as fast as Apple AppStore.

                             

                            Microsoft is late to the game with the Windows 8 Marketplace, but the daily traffic is still far beyond what most small FileMaker developers could produce to their own sites...

                            • 11. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                              intex

                              Joshua Ormond schrieb:

                              You could if you wanted, write the code, send it to FM, offer to support it and update it..

                               

                               

                              Why should I do their homework? It´s their part to provide a development platform, they call their product "Advanced" and I would like to see an advanced product. My business is to use this product to build the best solutions for our customers.

                               

                              For the time being - and that is quite long now - I have found workarounds for charts (Google Charts API) and PDF (built in on Mac OS X and free writers on Windows).

                               

                              Sure FM would have had to pay a little more for Charting and PDF in runtimes. But they didn´t for runtimes and did for FM GO. And that is sad.

                               

                              Hopefully for them all the hype about cloud and mobility isn´t ending like the web 1.0 hype. I still strongly believe in "old business".

                              • 12. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                                jormond

                                They have given you a development platform. Though it was not their intention. The product has always been a way for Users to create their own solutions. Developers have taken that platform and pushed it boundries. But a development platform is NOT intended to be a canned solution. It is the job of the developer to take the tool and provide the feature set that users need. If the tool doesn't do it natively, you find a way. That's why you get paid as the developer. If it did it on it's own, most users don't need your services.

                                 

                                Get off your soapbox and get programming. I wasn't suggesting you should do their homework, but if you want another revenue stream, I suggested one.

                                 

                                Pay more for runtimes?  How do you think that would affect the cost of everything else? I think you don't understand how BIG business works. You are stuck in a consumer mindset. FMI does not function at the consumer level. They are running a business that brings in millions. After expenses, any profit goes back to development of the platform. They have to remain profitable. Or they will cease to exist.

                                 

                                Sometime watch Shark Tank. See how business responds to products. Business is about making money. Big businesses will not invest money into something that doesn't have a good return on investment.

                                intex wrote:

                                 

                                Why should I do their homework? It´s their part to provide a development platform...

                                 

                                ...Sure FM would have had to pay a little more for Charting and PDF in runtimes. But they didn´t for runtimes and did for FM GO. And that is sad.

                                • 13. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                                  intex

                                  Joshua Ormond schrieb:

                                   

                                  They have given you a development platform. Though it was not their intention.

                                   

                                  Sorry, but may I laugh. The product is called "Advanced" and includes a runtime builder - that is a classical development tool since decades. If they don´t want to be that, they should stop selling this and stay with FM Pro.

                                   

                                   

                                  Joshua Ormond schrieb:

                                  But a development platform is NOT intended to be a canned solution.

                                   

                                  What else than a "canned solution" should I build with the runtime ?

                                  • 14. Re: Zero improvements to Runtimes in FM13?
                                    jormond

                                    What other platforms provide the ability to create multi-user runtimes with no further cost? Which other development platforms still even include the functionality to create a runtime?

                                     

                                    Advanced? Yup. Developer? Nope. It provides features that are more advanced than Pro. So it satisfies the name. It is you who are expecting FM to do all the work for you. It is a side-effect of creative developers that we can use it create and run enterprise level systems, and solutions for smaller businesses.

                                     

                                    If I was FMI, and you can continue to include Runtime creation, then I would. However, runtimes don't make FMI any money, nor the companies that license out their code to add functionality to FM. If FM offered to sell you a special license to create unlimited multi-user runtimes that connect to server, or could run peer-to-peer...what would you be ok paying for that???

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