1 2 3 4 Previous Next 50 Replies Latest reply on Feb 14, 2014 5:19 AM by RonSmithMD

    New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro

    drted

      For anyone interested in new hardware...

      Just took delivery of new Mac Pro Late 2013 (the trash can) basic config 3.7ghz Quad-core 12GB RAM 256GB SSD driving Thunderbolt display.

       

      Comparing script run times to my Late 2013 Retina MBP 2.6ghz Quad-Core i7 16GB RAM 1TB SSD driving Thunderbolt display.

       

      One test script that took 12 seconds to run on MBP, took 14 seconds on the new Mac Pro. I had hoped that the higher clockrate would improve execution speed, but in fact the 3.7 Mac Pro was measurable slower than the 2.6ghz MBP.

       

      I know this says nothing about server tasks, or other more disk intensive duties, but for script execution, there appears to be no advantage. Tried changing cache size from default of 128 to 512 without change. The file I am testing is not huge. 170MB data file.

       

      From other reports, I anticipate better results when I move to my FinalCut Pro X projects...but for Filemaker, it looks like the MBP still reigns supreme. Has anyone else experienced different results?

       

      FYI

      Ted

        • 1. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
          taylorsharpe

          I look forward to some controlled testing.  Your test is interesting and disappointing, but also a bit ad hoc too.  I'm sure that we'll be getting a lot of new testing over the next few months with specific controls laid out.  FileMaker Pro as an individually opened file will always perform faster than FileMaker Server for a single process.  So I am sure we will have some tests looking at those situations.  But of more interest to many people will be the server performance with various numbers of users hitting the server at the same time and spreading those processes over the up to 12 cores on a Mac Pro.  Since the 12 core is slower GHz than the 4 core, individual processes will probably be faster on the smallest Mac Pro.  But when you host 200+ users, the 12 core with lots of RAM is really going to shine. 

           

          One thing about databases is that often lots of small pieces of information are flowing back and forth.  Video with Final Cut Pro is a whole other scenario and I'm guessing it will benefit more from the really fast new PCIe flash storage. 

           

          Let the testing begin!  Now if only I can get a ship date of earlier than February!

          • 2. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
            wxtyrs

            Your "benchmark" figures are counterintuitive given the spec of the new machine.  However, there may be underlying code optimization issues in OSX or Filemaker code which come to bear.  The Mac Pro is an altogether new platform, after all.

             

            Like good wine, the platform will improve as the software is updated to match its new potential.

             

            On the other hand, some database functions may simply not benefit in the way multi-media processing tools do.

             

            Just think, however.  You have a cool machine.

            • 3. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
              Vincent_L

              Late 2013 Retina use Hasswell processors, faster than Xeon E5 which are sandy bridge.

              Filemaker doesn't use cores

              • 4. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                Vincent_L


                But when you host 200+ users, the 12 core with lots of RAM is really going to shine. 

                 

                 

                I'd welcome a screenshot of Filemaker server with fms process more than 200% steady. In my whole life I've never seen more than 300%

                FMS use 2 cores at most in FMS 11, FMS 12 one or two more cores. Never saw nor having read or heard from FMI, the opposite, but I'd be thrilled to !

                 

                I mean, for non webdirect stuff. Webdirect is supposed to use up to 12 cores

                 

                Added web direct precision

                • 5. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                  wimdecorte

                  Vincent_L wrote:

                   

                   

                  Filemaker doesn't use cores

                   

                  How did you establish this?

                  • 6. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                    perren

                    I'll get one for you shortly. We get instances of that for minutes at a time on a daily basis.

                     

                    If server is answering multiple non-table locking queries for any amount of time it heats up multiple cores to compensate.

                    • 7. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                      Vincent_L

                      Years of monitoring my 12 core server. Tests, reading and listening FM Inc webcast.

                      I tried in  FMS 13 to run 8 completly CPU bound tests server side (just variable loops), simultaneously : didn't go more than 300%

                       

                      Also, that statement was for Filemaker Pro standalone, not FMS, but for FMS use max 4 cores in 13 (webdirect excluded).

                      Of course, I'm talking about menaingfull way : steady performances with script or data serving, not just short bursts. (and Plug-in excluded : some rare one do use cores).

                       

                      I've noticed in 13 thart opening the graph can lead to 200 cpu usage. But not sure if that's faster.

                      • 8. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                        taylorsharpe

                        Dear Vincent,

                         

                        FileMaker runs threads for a given process by a user or script.  There is one thread per user/process.  So no user/process can use more than 1 core at a time.  But there can be many users using different threads and each thread is controlled by the operating system and can be spun off to different cores.  FileMaker has no limit on the number of threads and can use as many cores as you have.  This is really beneficial if you have many users.  As a single user, FileMaker cannot spit a thread and therefore use multiple cores for a single user or process. Having more cores on a development machine with 1 or 2 developers is a waste.  But for a production server, many cores is very useful. 

                         

                        There are some other limitations on certain services in FMS that only run as as single process and bottle neck up some things.  This often happens when running multiple scheduled scripts at the same time.  But FileMaker can make use of 12 cores if you have enough people hitting it and creating many threads. 

                        • 9. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                          wimdecorte

                          I agree with Taylorsharpe on this.  The picture is a lot more complex, so be careful to post in absolutes like you have.

                          • 10. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                            Vincent_L

                            taylorsharpe a écrit:

                             

                            There is one thread per user/process. 

                             

                            I'd buy it when I'd see a 800% fms CPU usage in screenshot

                             

                            When you create a scheduled script, it creates one user.

                             

                            So I created 8 scheduled script. Runing a loop in a variable (so pure memory, no records locking etc). This only produced 300% CPU

                            • 11. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                              wimdecorte

                              Vincent_L wrote:

                               

                               

                              I'd buy it when I'd see a 800% fms CPU usage in screenshot

                               

                              When you create a scheduled script, it creates one user.

                               

                              So I created 8 scheduled script. Runing a loop in a variable (so pure memory, no records locking etc). This only produced 300% CPU

                               

                              I think your assumption is off.  FMI has given us no information on what scripted actions translates into threads.  So you simply can not conclude that a scripted variable loop across 8 scheduled scripes would translate into 800% CPU usage.

                               

                              So your guess is as good as mine.  The reason I'm prompting you to not post in absolutes is that these forum posts tend to lead a life of their own.  Some people do take these posts for "the absolute truth" so we have to acknowledge that what we observe is simply that: what we observe for any given solution on any given deployment.  Unless we can point to some FMI-released documentation that explains how things are done.

                              • 12. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                                Vincent_L

                                If FMS Would use core extensively it would have been known, and we would have seen many High CPU usage testinmony. And producing a screenshot with 800% cpu usage would be piece of cake fo those who pretend that FMS uses core extensively (enough to warrant the higher cost of mult-core hard ware they advise).

                                 

                                My assumption is much less off than the one claiming that FMS uses cores enough to justify higher cost to get a multicore machine.

                                 

                                At worse my advise will save money to people, the other advise will make people buy more exepenseive hardware than FMS can use.

                                 

                                So I'd say to the proponent of the high multi-core stuff to prove their expensive say.

                                 

                                N.B : I'm talking about non web-direct stuff, at least FMI states thats Web-direct uses up to 12 cores (an not much). Some can even think, that if FMI talks core for web direct, that means core talking is not so nice for the other stuff :-)

                                • 13. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                                  wimdecorte

                                  Vincent_L wrote:

                                   

                                  If FMS Would use core extensively it would have been known, and we would have seen many High CPU usage testinmony.

                                   

                                  Again: your assumptions are wrong.  If you are looking for high CPU usage as the proof that FMS uses many cores then you are wrong.

                                  FMS will use as many cores and processors as you can throw at it.  The fact that you neither of them is maxed out at 100% does not mean that FMS is not using them.

                                   

                                  The single most important indicator for processing power is the "wait time/call" stat in the FMS admin console.  Closely followed by "elapsed time/call".

                                   

                                  Unfortunately for use we do not know what one "call" means.  It is not one thread.

                                   

                                  Here's a scenario for you.  12-core machine, 150 users, 1,000,000 records with one field being an unstored calculation.  Have 20 users do a search on that unstored calc field and see how your CPU usage is.  It is not going to be very high but the FMS wait time/call is going to spike.  In this scenario adding more cores/processors IS going to help a lot.

                                  • 14. Re: New Late 2013 Mac Pro and Filemaker Pro
                                    perren

                                    Here's the load average and core utilization graphs for the last 24 hours on our production box. It's a 6 core late 2011 Mac Pro. The only thing it does is run FM Server v12. WPE is on another machine so this is pure FMP/A client & scheduled script load.

                                     

                                    20140128_24_hour_load_average.png

                                    20140128_24_hour_core_usage.png

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