1 2 3 Previous Next 31 Replies Latest reply on Jun 6, 2014 10:05 PM by keywords

    Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour

    dubl

      This is the weirdest and most troublesome issue in my years of developing TaxiCab Manager.

       

      A user is entering the driver shift takings into the Shifts table and has created a new record and is on the editing layout entering data. What happens is - at randomly different points of the data entry, the user suddenly notices that the record has changed to the first record in the file.

       

      When brought to my attention a few weeks ago, I tried replicating the issue on my build version and could not - when talking to the user a few days later, he said it had cleared up and had not happened since.

       

      Another depot who has the latest version installed two weeks ago said that she too, saw the issue for a few days, but that it had fixed itself.

       

      Not all taxi depots use the same process of entering the driver shift takings - two of five depots recently upgraded from v11 to v12 are reporting this issue - the other three depots don't use this process. It has only been since upgrading from v11 to v12 that this problem has started, but since development is continous I may have done something since changing my master version from v11 to v12.

       

      So I set up a TeamViewer session on three machines at one of the depots reporting the issue so I could see it for myself. About one in eight records showed the errant behaviour - but I was not able to detect one common cause. Sometimes five in a row would jump, then the next eight would be fine. Sometimes it would jump when tabbing out of or into any of the four portals on the layout, sometimes when clicking into a field, sometimes when clicking white space. It appears that from watching the three users that the incidence today was less than yesterday, but I have no stats to prove that and anyway, even if it only happens once, something is awry! The one depot who does not do this process often but did see the behaviour was using a different editing layout, so it is not layout based. It does only show up in the one table of a 134-table separated solution.

       

      My first thought was a trigger on the layout which was failing in some gtrr manner. The problem layout has no triggers attached to it at all - there are two fields on the layout that have triggers on them - one shows a custom dialog, the other does a Refresh Window. I also created a new layout in case it was a corrupted element on the layout.

       

      There are no hidden buttons which might be firing off a 'go to 1st record' step. The users performing this task do not have the status area enabled, so the mouse scroll wheel does not flip records. I examined every button on the layout to make sure it did what it was supposed to - but since the jump happens randomly (as far as I can tell) an inadvertant button click sounds highly unlikely. None of the buttons are in the tab order.

       

      Today I downloaded a copy of their data files to my local machine and have been doing the same process for a few hours but it has still not happened to me. With the debugger on, there are no scripts hanging around unfinished while entering data, so its not an errant script.

       

      One of the files of the six-file solution has an OnTimer script, but this is not accessed by all users and the three users I TeamViewed did not have that file listed in the Windows menu since they do not access it. BaseElements confirms there are no other OnTime scripts in the entire solution.

       

      I am stumped. Obviously FileMaker does not randomly go the first record of the table for no reason.

       

      Any suggestions will be most welcome.

       

      Cheers

       

      Steve Silansky - aka Dubl

        • 1. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
          beverly

          Dubl,

           

          what is the SORT order? and is the layout/sort set to keep the order?

           

          Beverly

          • 2. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
            keywords

            It sounds as if there might be a lot of stuff on the layout and this could also mean a complex web of tab stops. I have sometimes found that a mess of tab stops makes for some apparently unexpected behaviour (don't forget that by default FM includes every new field on a layout in the tab sequence). I suggest you reset the tab stops to include only data entry fields that will be used by operators. You could also further tighten up field access but setting fields you do not want operators to enter (eg. autoenter and calc fields) to deny access in browse mode so they don't accidentally stumble into them.

             

            The other thing you might profitably do is sit and watch someone who has run across the problem; there may be something about how they go about the task that is different/unexpected that will give you a pointer. As developers we create a data entry layout to fit a method we assume users will follow … and then they go and use some completely different work process and …

            • 3. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
              dubl

              Bev,

               

              The jump only happens after they have created a new record and entered data - the status area after the record creation informs me that the 66996 records are unsorted.

               

               

              • 4. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                dubl

                Thanks for the reply, keywords.

                 

                The process the operators do is repetitive data entry, so the tab order is quite specific to their needs. I'm not sure if you mean tabs as in the tabbing order from field to field, or text tab stops within a field - I assume the former.

                 

                All calcs and auto-entries are not accessible in browse mode.

                 

                It is a busy layout - there are 153 items on it.

                 

                I spent three hours yesterday watching three operators via TeamViewer which is of course to observing someone directly. Watching the cursor, and knowing that they try and do all entry via the keyboard, I was pretty certain I knew what they were doing and how they were doing it. All the three hours showed was that no one common cause was apparent.

                • 5. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                  keywords

                  You assume correctly: I'm not sure if you mean tabs as in the tabbing order from field to field, or text tab stops within a field - I assume the former.

                   

                  If all 153 items are essential to what the operators are doing then so be it, but I guess you could try a simplified data entry layout and see if that helps.

                  • 6. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                    dubl

                    Only 19 fields are on the tab order - I wasnt clear on the 153 being the total object count on the layout

                    • 7. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                      ahusid

                      Hi, Dubl

                       

                      It happened to one of my clients something similar.

                       

                      Sometimes, when the user was entering data, suddenly the system jumps to a different record.

                      It happened randomly, and not to all users.

                       

                      Finally, the answer was that some users were scrolling trough the mouse, instead of using the tab key, and when the mouse was located in zones near the status area, the scrolling move the record locator changing the current record, instead of moving into the layout (up or down).

                      • 8. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                        flybynight

                        I also have some users reporting this behavior when entering Job Tickets into our system. It sounds like it is not as often as dubl is experiencing, but perhaps our record volume is not as great either. My users are seeing it once a week or so. But still, totally at random times, and not doing the same thing necessarily. Of course, sometime it happens and they don't see it right away, so they are entering data into the wrong record. The users experiencing this are on Windows with FM12. I'm on a Mac with FM12 and have never seen it do this… but again, I'm not entering as many tickets as they are. I unfortunately, have not been able to witness the behavior. I was just chalking it up to "Yeah, right... sure it's changing records on you." Sheesh… users, right?      But after reading this post, I think there may be something there.

                         

                        I thought of the mouse scrolling too, but as dubl said, I also have the status area hidden, so the mouse shouldn't scroll. I've tried to scroll to get it to do it on the user's PC, and couldn't get it to happen.

                         

                        Hoping someone has a "yes, this is a known bug/behavior" and hopefully a concrete "here is what to do about it."

                         

                        Thanks!

                        -Shawn

                        • 9. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                          beverly

                          Interesting. I tried to "scroll" (list view, many records) and the only scrolling occurs when in any PART (including headers). Never got any "scroll" above the parts....

                           

                          Beverly

                          • 10. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                            flybynight

                            In my case (and I was assuming this was the case with the original post as well, but I may have read into that), it is a form view, not a list view.

                            • 11. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                              beverly

                              you are correct, fly.

                              in Form View, there is an area that will trigger records' next/previous action in the upper left of the status  with the mouse wheel. - IF the status area is not hidden. Perhaps custom menus affect this action as well?

                               

                              I usually hide the status area and create my own navigation, so never noticed this. Thanks!

                               

                              Beverly

                              • 12. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                                alquimby

                                Dubl,

                                 

                                     I'm with Arie on this one. If the mouse inadvertently moves anywhere above the rolodex or slider in the upper left and the user happens to scroll (again inadvertently) numerous records can be jumped over––even if the cursor is flashing in a field. Have done it myself (again inadvertently).

                                 

                                Al Quimby

                                • 13. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                                  dubl

                                  Thanks for the replies folks.

                                   

                                  One of the things we looked at was the mouse scrolling - but the status area is hidden and when logged in as an operator,  watching the operator via TeamViewer and talking to her on the phone at the same time, she was definitely tabbing using the ENTER key. But we ALWAYS land up on the first record - I just tested opening the status area and scrolling - on my mouse, it jumps around 10 records per scroll, so it appears to rule this out.

                                   

                                  The bugger of it is that I have not yet been able to reproduce it on my setup. I have server 12 running on my PC with their data. I have tried entering directly on my PC, on my Mac, on FM12 in Parallels on my Mac - around 150 sheets with the debugger on - nothing....nada....nyet! All works as it should.

                                   

                                  And the weird thing is the one depot that saw this behaviour for a few days, and now it does not do it for her!

                                   

                                  As for record volume, each operator would enter around 100 sheets per day - although each sheet might have 20 to 30 bits of data being entered - directly onto the record and via the portals on the layout.

                                   

                                  Shawn - the first user that reported this was really one of those - 'yeah sure....... jumping out of the record...... sheesh, they don't make users like they used to' - types of user and when I gave him a new build, he never mentioned it again so I assumed...........!   But sound similar to you - totally random, doing different things. Does your solution have any OnTimer steps?

                                  • 14. Re: Jumps to 1st record in file while editing - weird behaviour
                                    flybynight

                                    My solution does have a couple of OnTimer steps, but not in this area. I've only used it as a delay for an as-you-type search/filter in a couple of spots. Once they are into entering data, those are all cleared out.

                                     

                                    I haven't heard about it happening in a while… so I'm never sure if that means the problem went away, or they have just stopped mentioning it.

                                    Our volume is 3-4 people writing up 10-25 job tickets (with typically 1-10 child jobs each) per day.

                                     

                                    Best of luck!

                                    -Shawn

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