1 2 Previous Next 17 Replies Latest reply on Jul 24, 2014 6:24 PM by keywords

    Font Color Question

    coherentkris

      I've got some strangeness going on with an FM 13 file that I can't seem to fix.

      FMA 13.03 on windows 7.

      File is served by FMSA 13 on Windows

      File in question has a custom theme.

      Their are no red flags in the theme or style definition related to text.

      Default font color for text in the style is black.

      57 layouts in the file with three that are problematic.

       

      Issue:

      Open one of non problem layouts in layout mode.

      Show formatting bar.

      Show status toolbar.

      Select the text tool.

      Add text to layout.

      Text shows up black as expected and the font color picker shows black

       

      Go to any of the three problem layout and follow same steps above.

      Color picker shows nothing ( or light grey?? ) selected.

      Open the color picker and it shows "Other Color" checked.

      Go to "Other Color" dialog and it shows rgb = 242, 242, 242

      Text is 242, 242, 242 not black.

       

      I ran a recover on the file for sanity checking and the log showed a bunch of stranded 11 stranded library objects and two instances of 8476 related to themes classic and cool grey.

       

      Any ideas?

      TIA,

      Kris

        • 1. Re: Font Color Question
          Stephen Huston

          Q: Are the problem layouts assigned the Custom Theme, or another Theme? Just because there is a Custom Theme in a file doesn't mean its assigned to all layouts; in fact that would be quite unusual.

           

          Font color can be assigned locally at the layout as either edited style (layout specific) or local object formatting, even conditional formatting, without affecting other themes, or even the same theme on another layout.

           

          You really need to check all of the layers of available formatting for the offending text blocks. Formatting can be at the Theme level, Style level, and Local formatting level of the specific object, as well as Conditional Formats.

          • 2. Re: Font Color Question
            coherentkris

            Thanks Steven,

             

            Their is no conditional formatting on a newly created text object and i did not apply any.

            The custom theme is applied to every layout and I wonder why you would think this an oddity.

            The text object was not altered in any way with inspector.

            I just placed the text object, entered some text and observed the result

            • 3. Re: Font Color Question
              Stephen Huston

              coherentkris wrote:

               

              The custom theme is applied to every layout and I wonder why you would think this an oddity.

              The application of a single theme to all layouts is unusual in a "finished" solution because, even if you are designing only for one type of device, generally layouts intended for print, PDF output, and other reporting, are formatted differently than for screens. Still, that does not indicate a problem which would cause what you are seeing.

               

              Some level of the Theme/Style/State formatting for your layout is applying a color to this text object if you have not applied one. It is entirely understandable that a Custom theme might have some settings inherited from the source theme which were inadvertently unchanged when editing the saved theme. This will require digging through all of the layers of the Theme, Styles for the object type, and States of the object to determine where it is.

               

              If you check the objects which do not exhibit this particular appearance, I am pretty sure you will find that the object Type or Style applied is different, or that local formatting has been applied to one of the differing objects.

              • 4. Re: Font Color Question
                keywords

                My suggestion is that you recreate from scratch one of the problem layouts (start with the simplest one) making sure you have the correct theme applied from the beginning. If the problem goes away, repeat with the other two, then delete the problem layouts.

                 

                Just another line of thought, you don't say whether the file started out in an earlier version of FM, but if it did there could be some carryover object stuff that is causing problems—or this may be there for other reasons, eg. the layout originating as Classic theme, which I understand can cause issues that no other theme will. There can certainly be some odd things around the matter of themes and styles, and I suspect this is because—at least in my case—I am still getting used to remembering to use theme, and learning how to use them properly. In the long run they will be a real boon in FM design, but in the transition they are just another thing we have to learn.

                • 5. Re: Font Color Question
                  user19752

                  rgb = 242, 242, 242 is default text color in header part of cool gray theme.

                   

                  It seems a bit strange that

                  Make new file, the dafault theme enlightend is applyed.

                  Add text to header part, the text color is white.

                  Right click on the text, object style is showed as 'default', but in the inspector, it is already changed something from default.

                   

                  This is defined in .css as

                  header text_box .self {

                  font-weight: bold;

                  color: #ffffff;

                  font-size: 14pt;

                  }

                  This is near the pre-defined style 'Column Header Text', but it is 12pt. in .css it may be this

                  text_box.column_header_text .self {

                  color: #ffffff;

                   

                  }

                  only color is defined.

                   

                  So, newly created object may have not default style in default theme.

                  This may be occur also in custom theme.

                  • 6. Re: Font Color Question
                    Stephen Huston

                    Keep in mind that the term "default" in the layout Themes and Styles is a term meaning that the object has the appropriate Style for its theme/object-type/and State. Each object type, which includes sub-types based on location on the layout, has its own default for each State. Default is  not a specific style; it's may be a different formatting combineation for each different type of object in each possible object state within a single Theme.

                     

                    Also the CSS really does mean cascading. Parts of the formatting of a specific object can come from the Theme, part from the Object Type style, part from the variant styles available for the object type, part from the Style for the current State of the object, and then both locally-modified style edits and custom formatting, if any, and affect the cummulative effect of those cascades.

                     

                    Take a look at Lesson 15 in the FileMaker Training Series for a full discription and illustration of the cascading effect of various style edits which can accumulate on a single layout object.

                    • 7. Re: Font Color Question
                      keywords

                      This points to an interesting shortcoming in the Themes and Styles area at this stage in its development which I really hope FM will fix in future versions. As pointed out by Stephen, the term "default" in effect can mean different things depending on an object's LOCATION ON THE LAYOUT. To illustrate, try the following using the Enlightened Theme:

                       

                      1.     use the text tool to type something on the body part of a layout—text is Arial 12pt grey left aligned—AND the default style indicator is black, indicating that this IS the default setting

                      2.     place a field on the body part, including a label—text of the label is as in 1, but right aligned—now the style indicator is red, indicating that this is a variation to the default setting

                      3.     type some text on the header part—text is Arial 14pt bold white left aligned—and shown as a variation to the default style, as above

                      4.     type some text on the footer part—text is Arial 10pt black left aligned—and again, shown as a variation to the default style

                       

                      Note that in each of 2, 3 and 4, when you added the text FM simply applied the Default style and, by default, varied it, which to my mind is a bit bizarre. Now select one of the variants and choose Save Changes to Current Style. What happens?

                       

                      1.     save the header variant as the default and all the text on the body part becomes Arial 14pt bold white—BUT the text that was added as a field label remains right aligned and indicated as a variant AND the text on the footer part has bold added to its characteristics

                      2.     save the footer variant and all the text on the body part becomes Arial 10pt black—BUT the label text remains right aligned and tagged as a variant AND the text on the header is completely unchanged

                      3.     save the label variant as the default and ALL text becomes right aligned—BUT all other characteristics are unchanged AND the header and footer text are both tagged as variants

                       

                      Why does FM change some characteristics but not others? I can't see the logic I'm afraid.

                       

                      My conclusion from all of this is that the only way to set up a theme so as to have no style variants is to save each variant to the default as a new style—text on header, text on footer, text label, etc (although it would make sense for FM to make separate default settings in the first place) AND save the whole lot as a custom theme, for that, indeed, is what FM will do. The sting in the tail is that if you choose the Save Changes to Theme option you will end up with a Custom theme with the same name as the one you started with—the built in Enlightened listed in the Aspire group, and another Enlightened listed in a Custom group. Furthermore, there will be nothing in the Layout toolbar to indicate which of the two Enlightened themes you are using, which is a signifcant trap you need to be aware of, but really ought not be there. It would be better if the Save Changes to Theme option simply did not exist for the built in themes—sometimes FM is its own worst enemy!

                      • 8. Re: Font Color Question
                        Malcolm

                        The sting in the tail is that if you choose the Save Changes to Theme option you will end up with a Custom theme with the same name as the one you started with—the built in Enlightened listed in the Aspire group, and another Enlightened listed in a Custom group. Furthermore, there will be nothing in the Layout toolbar to indicate which of the two Enlightened themes you are using, which is a signifcant trap you need to be aware of.

                         

                        There should be more information when a custom theme is created from a built-in theme and it should ask the user to edit/approve the Theme name (having already automagically append “custom” or “copy”) to prevent confusion.

                         

                        Malcolm

                        • 9. Re: Font Color Question
                          keywords

                          The weird thing is that if you choose Save as a New Theme and try to call it Enlightened, FM will not let you; it pops a dialog that says "This name is already in use. Please provide a unique name", yet if you choose the Save Changes to Theme option FM itself creates a theme with a non-unique name. WTF?

                          • 10. Re: Font Color Question
                            Stephen Huston

                            FileMaker 13 does not let you overwrite an entire FM-Original theme with the same name because the built-in themes are application-wide. Themes you edit in a specific file are still only edited in that file, not in the application.

                             

                            Allowing you to save style changes within a theme is file-dependant to make the process more developer-friendly, but there is a certain missing logic in the naming possiblities which helps confuse the process.

                             

                            An edited theme with the original theme name is not really a custom theme, which requires a unique name, and will only be available to other FM files if imported into them via the Manage Themes window.

                             

                            Clear as mud 

                            • 11. Re: Font Color Question
                              keywords

                              What you say is correct, but:

                               

                              1.     "An edited theme with the original theme name is not really a custom theme, which requires a unique name". It is, nevertheless, saved by default as a custom theme, with the same name as the original, within that file.

                               

                              2.     "will only be available to other FM files if imported into them via the Manage Themes window"—and when you do import it into another file it, by default, gets listed in that file as a custom theme, but his time the unique name filter is enacted, so FM simply renames it, without warning you, as Enlightened 2 (or whatever).

                              • 12. Re: Font Color Question
                                Stephen Huston

                                keywords wrote, in part:

                                 

                                1.     "An edited theme with the original theme name is not really a custom theme, which requires a unique name". It is, nevertheless, saved by default as a custom theme, with the same name as the original, within that file.

                                 

                                I'm not sure it's saved as a "custom theme" in it home file, but rather as local (file-level) edits to the original theme, which are specific to that file, just as changes saved to Styles remain local only to the specific layout where they were saved, unless also saved to the Theme itself.

                                 

                                The renaming when importing into another file just clarifies that the edited version has become a Custom Theme in the new file, where the original theme is was not edited in that file, but it's still just a locally-edited original theme in the file where it was changed.

                                 

                                I'm not really sure this is much more than semantics, but that's part of why these waters are murky.

                                • 13. Re: Font Color Question
                                  keywords

                                  "I'm not sure it's saved as a "custom theme" in it home file"—well, it is certainly listed as a custom theme in its home file, and can be imported from there into other files.

                                   

                                  As you say, it is murky. It would be clearer if, when making changes to styles within an FM original theme if you then did not have the option to "Save changes to theme", since FM, by default, does not allow this but in fact makes a copy of the theme AND allows it to have the same name as the FM original.

                                  • 14. Re: Font Color Question
                                    Stephen Huston

                                    I agree completely!

                                    If the only option for saving changes at the Theme level required saving with a new name, that would make it clear.

                                     

                                    However, I think this is not required to simplify applying changes throughout a local file; that would require going to every layout using the theme one-by-one, and changing them each to the new Theme to see those changes file-wide.

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