14 Replies Latest reply on Sep 22, 2014 11:46 AM by BruceRobertson

    Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue

    mwallen

      I have a button on our layouts that triggers one script step "Open Manage Layouts". This opens the Manage Layouts window where users can choose the layout they want and then click open to open a new window using the newly selected layout and current found set.

       

      In FileMaker 11 this would open the layout in a new window using the current found set. Now after converting the to FileMaker 13 it opens using all records, not the current found set. We use this to find one person, then want to go to a special layout to print a special letter. It was very effective in FM 11, now worthless in FM 13.

       

      Is this the new "normal process" in FM 13, if so, then this is worthless.

       

      With over 40,000 records and over 300 layouts, this process worked perfectly in FM 11. Now in FM 13 we have no easy way to switch layouts with the current found set.

       

      You can test this for yourself on any file. Open the file, choose a small found set, Go to Layout mode, select Manage Layouts, go back to browse mode, select a different layout using Manage Layouts. In FM 11 you will have the same found set, in FM 13 you will have all records.

       

      Does anyone have any thoughts on why this has changed in FM 13?

       

      Mike Wallen

      Systems Admin

      Virginia Board of Bar Examiners

        • 1. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
          alquimby

          Mike,

           

               I have no problem getting the found set back (FM 13) when I switch layouts as you suggest. Are you sure the layout does not have a script trigger that has a script to show all records?

           

          Al Quimby

          • 2. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
            BruceRobertson

            I can repeat Mike's problem when using FileMaker 13.

             

            I do not experience the problem with FileMaker 12.

            • 3. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
              DavidJondreau

              You're using "Manage Layouts" to navigate between layouts?? That's a new one. You're using Manage Layouts in an incredibly non-standard manner.

               

              It also turns out that if you're in Layout Mode in 12 and from the Manage Layouts dialog, choose Open on a different layout, you get that layout in Layout Mode. In 13, you get that Layout in Browse.

               

              Does it really matter why it changed? It changed, and I doubt FMI gave even two thoughts to it.

               

              Which is more than what you're giving to thinking of alternatives. "No easy way..." I can think of a handful of ways to get you the same result (the same set of found records in a new window on a different layout) with minimal coding and just as intuitive for the user.

              • 4. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                erolst

                DavidJondreau wrote:

                Which is more than what you're giving to thinking of alternatives. "No easy way..." I can think of a handful of ways to get you the same result (the same set of found records in a new window on a different layout) with minimal coding and just as intuitive for the user.

                And having the user choose between 300 layouts to be able to output a certain type of document is a somewhat dubious (to put it mildly) direction to take with a UI, for a variety of reasons …

                • 5. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                  Malcolm

                  I've never thought of giving users access to the manage layouts dialog. I presume that my users are like me and will want to add new layouts, change the order, change the names, add new folders, regroup them, and so on. Does anyone delete layouts?

                   

                  Have you considered creating a UI for those layouts? If you create a table called Layouts you could track the layout name, ID, etc and provide a description, function labels and groupings. You can present the records in a list, just like the layout manager, and present better information, using the groupings and the description. It could be searchable, so you could show a short list of layouts relevant to the user, instead of all 300.

                  • 6. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                    Stephen Huston

                    The Open Manage Layouts dialog script step brings up the dialog while still in browse mode, and then using the Open button on the dialog when a layout has been selected opens a new window for the TO.

                     

                    The catch is it's opening it from a context that is normal for Layout Mode, rather than browse mode, so it's not transfering the found set from the other browse window as would the Open New Window script, because that was not the frontmost window -- the layout screen was the frontmost window, so it supplies all of the records from the base TO of the layout on opening. IT can't assume that the next layout chosen should be the same base TO.

                     

                    At least that's how I interpret what's going on. But then, I've never allowed a user access to the Manage Layouts dialog via a script for a lot of reasons, some of which Malcom mentioned — mainly mischief!

                    • 7. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                      BruceRobertson

                      Remember that in all previous versions, including FileMaker 12, this worked.

                       

                      It is a terrible approach to letting users navigate layouts.

                       

                      But in prior versions it worked, in browse mode, and respected the found set.

                      • 8. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                        mwallen

                        David

                         

                        I would like to know what suggestions you have to help the user locate a specific layout among 300 and go to that layout using the current found set.

                         

                        Thanks, Mike

                        • 9. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                          usbc

                          Hi,

                          One strategy would be to create a menu of the layouts using a Conditional Value List.

                          http://help.filemaker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5833/~/creating-conditional-value-lists

                           

                          How you choose to offer up the menu has many methods be it a new modal window, etc.

                          The "condition" of a layout would likely comprise the department which uses it and its purpose.

                          When a user chooses one, a script delivers them to the layout. You could enhance the method by providing a interim page which display a sample image of the layout with some static data and a Proceed, Choose Again or Cancel option.

                          HTH, Chuck

                          • 10. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                            DavidJondreau

                            It's unclear *why* you're doing this. Knowing why (using user-centric terms, not FileMaker terminology) is helpful. What's the solution trying to achieve?

                             

                            Keep in mind, the found set issue is simply a feature of FileMaker. As long as the base TO in the "from" and "to" layouts are the same, the found set is preserved.

                             

                            My first suggestion would be to use the native FileMaker drop down with a script trigger. Let the users choose a layout from that drop down. If a new window is important, train them to use a modifier key like command and select and have a script trigger onLayoutExit make a new window when that modifier key is being used.

                             

                            You can also go more complex and user friendly, like having a drop down menu on a global field with a script trigger, to a whole separate layout (that mirrors the appearance of the Manage Layout... dialog) with its own table.

                            • 11. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                              BruceRobertson

                              We also don't know yet why there are 300 layouts.

                               

                              What is actually different about each of these layouts?

                               

                              It seems very likely that this is an indicator of a design problem.

                               

                              Are they letter templates, for example?

                              Letter templates can be generated with merge text.

                              Global fields or merge variables can be placed on the layouts to indicate things like titles, etc.

                              • 12. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                                mwallen

                                OK,  Several questions have been asked about how and why I use this process.

                                 

                                We are a very small shop, only 8 users of the DB. We are all trusted to use this process form navigation only.  It manages over 30,000 records for individuals and grows about 2,000 every year.  Each record contains over 300 fields of data for each person.  Based on the evaluation of each person and the data collected for that person there are about 200 different letters/reports/printouts for their paper file that need to be printed. 

                                 

                                By using the Manage Layouts the user can quick find the layout they need (using the search function), click the open button which opens a separate window with the current foundset and allows them to print it and then they can close the window and Manage Layouts window and move on to another person.

                                 

                                This was working perfectly in our environment for over 4 years and now, after moving to FM13 and having this not work, I am left with having to develop another way for doing this process.

                                 

                                My simple question is why did Filemaker determine this had to change, what was wrong with it functioning as it had from FM9-Fm12?

                                 

                                Mike

                                • 13. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                                  DavidJondreau

                                  How can an explanation of the *why* possibly help you?

                                   

                                  My guess is there likely is no *why*. It could be a byproduct of some other change. The change is so insignificant within the scope of FileMaker, I wouldn't be surprised if engineers even knew it happened.

                                  • 14. Re: Manage Layouts - Open with found set issue
                                    BruceRobertson

                                    Your question is pointless.

                                     

                                    Nobody can change that for you and I doubt anybody wants to waste their time.

                                     

                                    You have what is almost certainly a terrible data structure.

                                     

                                    You will find a lot of help moving toward a design change that begins to use standard relational database techniques, combined with FileMaker reporting and automation features.