1 2 3 Previous Next 82 Replies Latest reply on Sep 29, 2014 9:05 AM by tesla51

    Is FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?

    jgalt

      As a Mac user I find it extremely frustrating to develop FileMaker solutions that run on both Mac and Windows. The Windows experience seems terrible in comparison to Mac because of the inability to have a window maintain full screen mode when open a second window. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? I am already running all sorts of ridiculous scripts in an effort to deal with this problem but I am getting quite tired of implementing these time consuming workarounds.

      Instead of spending so much time trying to figure out how to extract more dollars out of your current developers how about fixing your broken software so more developers might want to use it?

        • 1. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
          mikebeargie

          If I understand how windows works, it's impossible to fix because it's a problem with windows and NOT a problem with FileMaker.

           

          Windows may not support true independent windows like MacOS does, in an application like FileMaker. This means that all "windows" in FileMaker must be contained inside of the main parent application window frame, and are subject to sub-window behaviors. That is why the FileMaker application window stays open in WinOS, even if you close all database files, where on MacOS only a dock indicator points to the FM application still being open.

           

          How insensitive of you to immediately fingerpoint at FileMaker and call it broken without considering the larger picture.

           

          Are you aware of a platform that overcomes this on windows? I've certainly seen the same behavior displayed in access before.

           

          Also, the addition of layout (OnLayoutEnter/Exit) and window (OnWindowOpen/Close) script triggers and an exhaustive amount of window based functions (EG get(screenwidth)) has made it quite easy to build a context-free windows-only sizing script that can easily be applied as a subscript to your navigation scripts, or as a layout trigger on different windows.

          • 2. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
            flukey

            It is not quite correct that Windows does not support independent windows.  There are a few different windowing models that can be used. It is quite possible to design a multi window system in Windows where each window is contained separate from the main and all other windows.  I have written an application like this myself.  There are some limitations, but not anything like what we see in FM. 

             

            The windowing model chosen by FM allows them to have layout sub windows within the main windows.  They could have done it differently.  As an example, the Manage Script window is simply a window form that was designed to be an independent floating window form.  The same with the Open Database window. Why not do the layout windows the same way.

            • 3. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
              psuchad

              Adobe figured it out in Photoshop CS2 back in 2005. Just saying.

              Untitled-3.png

              • 4. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                mikebeargie

                *points back to "in an application like filemaker" note*

                 

                Probably none of us devs will be able to answer the why of it. Since it's been the basis of the program in windows since at least FM7, then there may be a reason they are sticking to it. Maybe the independent layout windows can't access the database core effectively at the same time. Maybe independent windows crash the system from taking up too many resources per-window. Maybe they don't have as much money to spend on development as adobe had in 2005. Who knows? I doubt you'll get a chime in from any filemaker inc. engineers here so all we can do is speculate. It's a far cry from being broken though, what it does works fine, and has worked generally the same way for years.

                 

                They have obviously attempted to make it easier to handle windows with the introduction of the OnWindowOpen/Close triggers. Why not just place a single script trigger that runs automatically with every window open to maximize your newly active window? You could even make it robust and state aware so it can take "smart" actions depending on the context of how the window opened. Since it's a file-based script trigger, you would only have to code it once for your file. Make it context-free and copy it from file-to-file. Make it platform aware and have it only apply to windows.

                 

                I am failing to see why it's "extremely frustrating", "broken", "requiring all sorts of ridiculous scripts" and "filemaker's fault".

                 

                How many of you have submitted feature requests for this? Maybe enough people aren't saying that it's an issue in their windows product for them to prioritize it for development.

                • 5. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                  jormond

                  While I agree that FM on Windows needs to addressed...I'm not sure you can blame either FM or Windows.

                   

                  (1) Windows could make it a little easier. The rewrite to create the kind of window modeling you are talking about affects a lot more than just displaying another window. Not to mention, Windows has been notoriously bad about changing how Windows handles various classes of windows. Imagine the chaos caused when Windows decides to slightly "enhance" how floating, dialog, or modal windows perform. It is a huge potential to break you solution if Windows sends out an update. FM sticks with the window modes that are safe and established. I have seen several apps that at one point tried a new Windowing model, just to have to do a re-write 6 months later because Windows changed something.

                   

                  (2) FM could make it a little easier. There are definitely options. But from my interactions, and discussions I've read, the majority of engineers and developers at FMI are Mac-centric. Trying to takle an advanced, complex feature of Windows without living and breathing Windows every day, could be bad...very bad. I think FMI needs to, and will eventually, address this issue...but I can't entirely blame them for the cause.

                   

                  In the meantime, I just size the main window to fit just inside the bounds of the application window. Then provide a means for the user to resize it to fit if they resize the application window. It's worked well and still allows me to throw up other windows when needed.

                  • 6. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                    psuchad

                    Three major reasons to fix it:

                     

                    1) Opening a new window causes the main window to resize and shift and it is jolting.

                    2) You can't move a window to a second monitor without stretching the main FileMaker window to span both monitors.

                    3) Windows has a greater market share, even within FileMaker users. Why treat you money maker as red headed stepchild?

                    • 7. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                      jormond

                      Well, I agree that it is extremely frustrating. How you actually seen what FM does when you open a new window? And every the existing window is maximized? It looks bad, and makes the FM and our work look unprofessional.

                       

                      With that said, there are ways around it until FMI makes a change there. They did eventually fix the screen flash issues, and I'm confident that when it's possible, they will address this too. Chrome has some nice techniques to "pop out" windows separately that I would love to see in FM. And maybe there is a way to hide the application window, and/or use a different class of Window. I suppose there is some backward compatibility involved when you look at the fact that FM11 is still technically a supported product.

                      Mike Beargie wrote:

                       

                      I am failing to see why it's "extremely frustrating", "broken", "requiring all sorts of ridiculous scripts" and "filemaker's fault".

                      • 8. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                        usbc

                        A long time ago (Devloper 6) there was available a Windows "window controller" which would let us run FMP in Kiosk Mode as a "frameless" and non-full screen Runtime. (that's a mouthful, huh). You could drag the FMP window around the screen but not resize it by grabbing a corner. As I recall, It consisted of a .exe file which called a .int . My memory is fuzzy on the details but I'm sure the smart kids in the plugin world could recreate the end affect if there was enough demand.

                        • 9. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                          jgalt

                          Mike Beargie wrote:

                           

                          How insensitive of you to immediately fingerpoint at FileMaker and call it broken without considering the larger picture.

                           

                           

                          Immediately? This has been a problem for far too long. What's insensitive is FileMaker's total disregard for people's time. If you really want to look at the bigger picture you should consider how many hours of life are wasted on this planet because someone at FileMaker is either too lazy or too incompetent to solve these problems.

                          • 10. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                            mikebeargie

                            http://www.filemaker.com/company/contact/feature_request.html

                            The more unique submissions for feature requests that are made, the more filemaker will pay attention to it. Bring it up at devcon, bring it up in sales calls with FM reps.

                             

                            Chrome has always treated each tab as a separate process, it just uses a snap-to feature to keep them all in one "window".

                             

                            Maybe I've just been lucky that since developing in 8.5, I am yet to receive a client complaint, or loss of business, based on this lack of handling windows.

                             

                            Sure it's ugly, windows has always been. More of a reason to sell them on a mac? Don't forget that "An Apple Subsidiary" that popped up in FileMaker's logo recently. I wonder how much of that love/hate relationship between apple/microsoft filters down into FileMaker. It's certainly rare in the apple portfolio to have a software package for windows.

                            • 11. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                              jgalt

                              Mike Beargie wrote:

                               

                              I am failing to see why it's "extremely frustrating", "broken", "requiring all sorts of ridiculous scripts" and "filemaker's fault".

                               

                              How many of you have submitted feature requests for this? Maybe enough people aren't saying that it's an issue in their windows product for them to prioritize it for development.

                               

                              I don't expect Windows users to understand.  The fact that they are using Windows demonstrates their willingness to accept mediocrity.

                               

                              It shouldn't require two people to tell you that your roof is leaking before you decide to fix it.

                              • 12. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                                mikebeargie

                                If you don't adapt and innovate your own ways to save time, how is that FileMaker's fault? If you've been dealing with these problems for years shouldn't you have developed ways to deal with the problem faster, such as context-free scripting or even just copying and pasting things between files? Are you still developing the exact same way you did 3-5 years ago?

                                 

                                Are you saying that you're losing business, fielding constant client complaints and giving away free development time as a direct result of this specific lack of functionality in FileMaker? If time is money, how are you losing money as a result of this?

                                 

                                FileMaker still realizes an incredible development cost savings by it's WYSIWYG layout creation alone. I hardly think this lack of function, valid or not, is as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Certainly not a conspiracy by filemaker to disregard developers and waste their time on purpose.

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                                • 13. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                                  mikebeargie

                                  Let's just pretend that Apple, as the parent of FileMaker, says "Hey FileMaker, you have $xxx amount to spend in 2014 to develop your product line".

                                   

                                  FileMaker needs to decide what goes in, so they sit down and have a meeting about their roadmap.

                                   

                                  I'm sure we would have a bigger chance of seeing a feature added to the platform if someone in that meeting said "we received 500 requests for this feature in the past year", than if someone said "I remember sometime back in September, there was a pretty heated discussion on technet about our winOS windows handling, maybe we should look at that".

                                   

                                  I do know factually that people at FileMaker pay attention to technet. Posting by Delfina and Steve Romig has confirmed that in the past. But that feature request is there for a reason, and we should ALL use it every time we run across something we want. I have it bookmarked, and have probably used it enough that people at FMI are saying "oh look, another one from Mike B." every time I send it.

                                  • 14. Re: If FileMaker ever going to fix the full screen window problem on Windows?
                                    psuchad

                                    Mike, stop defending the indefensible. If people are complaining, that should be enough to recognize that there may just be a problem. Yes we have created work arounds, but the point is we shouldn't have to. My workaround for multiple windows is running both FM13 and FM12. Not only is that ridiculous, but 13 features will not display in 12 making my workaround less useful every day.

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