14 Replies Latest reply on Oct 19, 2014 5:04 PM by wsvp

    New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?

    bigtom

      Is Apple trying to price/option users into a mac pro as the upgrade to the old mac mini server?

       

      I wish I had purchased another one earlier this week. Oh well.

        • 1. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
          perren

          Wow, to add insult to injury there's none available in the refurb store at Apple either!

           

          Yes, I'd agree this is a solid kick in the knees for those looking at a mini as a solid FMS server. More so now with WebDirect and PSoS...each additional core is key to optimal performance. 2 just isn't enough...

          • 2. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
            bigtom

            You still only get hyper threading on the i7 upgrade, but virtual 8 cores is a a jump more than 4 on the new boxes.

             

            I thought I saw an option for two 1TB drives but that is gone from the store now if it was there.

             

            I was really hoping for a quad core haswell i7, with two pci-e ssd drives and up to 32GB ram.

             

            My current mini server was a around $2300 with everything. I would have been willing to throw in a few hundred more for the new model with the features I wanted.

             

            That gets me close to the price of the entry Mac Pro but without the second drive and money tied up in a fancy GPU that will never get used. Honestly I think the new iMac might work as a better filemaker server than the 4 core Mac Pro if we had the space for it. Maybe a VESA mount under a table.

             

            Time to eyeball a 2012 Mac Pro as we add more filemaker users. There is a hole in the product line for a good FMS. I feel let down as a customer.

            • 3. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
              PeterWindle

              There's also a rumor that the RAM is soldered in !

               

              So, no dual drives, soldered ram, no server version on line (you can download the Server software at additional cost) and no quad core processor.

               

              Well, there it is... there is an obvious push away from the mini to MacPro if you're looking for a server. Not a cheap proposition.

               

              I have to say, if the new Mac Pro was a little cheaper, I'd certainly go for it.

               

              PS: I still run a quad core Mac Mini with dual drives as my server... not sure how safe it is to replace the hard drives with SSD, but if it's safe enough, I'd be a happy chappy to replace them and upgrade the RAM ...!

              • 4. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                precursor

                If you are really trying to make it a server I don't see why you would consider ordering the base model.

                 

                It can come with an i7, 16GB of RAM, a 1 TB flash drive that is twice as fast as the old model's SSD, and it has two Thunderbolt 2 ports!

                 

                And configured that way it costs half the price of even a cheap Mac Pro.

                 

                Server.app is a $20 download. Trivial decision there too.

                • 5. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                  BruceRobertson

                  "Server.app is a $20 download. Trivial decision there too."

                   

                  How so? FMS is not supported yet on Yosemite; which will come on the new machines.

                  And on the previous OS, FMS is not supported where server.app is installed.

                  • 6. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                    precursor

                    FMS is not supported yet on Yosemite; which will come on the new machines.

                    And on the previous OS, FMS is not supported where server.app is installed.

                     

                    That is a very good point Bruce.

                     

                    Historically, FileMaker always said that Best Practise was to run FMS on a seperate machine. It just became a matter of policy in FMS 13 which runs its own apache.

                     

                    Still, having an extra Mac mini as the FMS machine and another one as an OS X server can still be cheaper than the Mac Pro route.

                     

                    And, where budget crises forbid the extra Mac mini, I have worked out a tutorial on how to run FMS 13 and OS X Server app on the same box. (Not saying that FileMaker supports it; just saying it can be done).

                     

                    See the RAIS page tutorials section:  http://rais.precursor.ca

                    • 7. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                      bigtom

                      My main point is lack of cores and no ability for a simple raid 1 without a separate raid box.

                       

                      I am sure the new mini has it's place in the world, but it is not as a decent FM server. A four core machine is recommended.

                       

                      I don't get how iPads a few generations old are still sold by Apple but something like the mini has old models cut right away.

                       

                      A few people have tested Yosemite and had some problems with FMGo. Pro seems to work fine from what I have heard. But not officially supported.

                      • 8. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                        PeterWindle

                        That would not be the base model then, that would be a CTO mid range to high end model, which is more than $2500 AUD.

                         

                        As far as a server goes, having a full size PC with multiple drive bays in RAID is an ideal setup and should cost a lot less than this.

                         

                        Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer the Apple platform over anything else, but if Apple are serious about having product for SME (small to medium enterprise) then I think they are going to leave the "S" out of that market place.

                        • 9. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                          precursor

                          With RAID the emphasis is on the "D" for drive. You NEED multiple drives since a drive has moving parts and is prone to fail.

                           

                          But do you need two flash drives in the same computer? With flash memory the failure rate is dozens of times less. So do you really need a RAID?

                           

                          How about a RAIS and make the "S" for server redundant instead of the "D" for drives.

                           

                          With two Mac minis (one of which is in target disk mode) you have complete redundancy of processor, logic board, memory, storage and power supply - and all at a very affordable rate. Take a look at http://rais.precursor.ca for more details about the Redundant Array of Indpendent Servers that was discussed on AFP548 after Apple EOLed the Xserve.

                          • 10. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                            planteg

                            About the fact that the new Mac Mini's could not be opened, I went to the my Apple Store today. Unfortunately couldn't learn anything because they haven't got any yet . I looked at the Starting Guide for these new ones and compared with the older ones: on the older one, the round black plate under is marked as removable... but no mention of removable for the new ones, and no round grip marks to screw/unscrew them appear. So look like they can't be open anymore, well not by the owner.

                             

                            Also strange that they don't provide anymore quad-cores.

                            • 11. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                              bigtom

                              I am not sure if the ram is soldered on or not. I only read that it was not intended to be user accessible.

                               

                              They really should offer something in the way of a screenless iMac. Maybe in another few years.

                               

                              There was some pricing mismatch in the old Mac mini for adding an additional SSD that I never understood. But I paid anyway as we need all original apple hardware with apple care.

                              • 12. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                                wsvp

                                As a long time Mac advocate, this latest round of Mac releases are just another page in 3+ years of Mac disappointments for me...

                                 

                                The "Dual Core" i7 Mini is indeed a "downgrade" in my opinion.  While the improved Intel graphics are welcome, they still fall far short of a dedicated graphics engine. This places this model even further into a position where, there seems to be no solid reason to buy one.  Now instead of being the computer that is "good enough" for certain applications, it has become the computer that is "ALMOST" good enough for certain applications.

                                 

                                The new Retina iMac is also another disappointment.  note that there is no Core i7 available "at all."  It uses a Quad core i5.  Thus it seems that the 8 virtual cores are not an option here as well.  The previous iMac can be configured with a Quad Core i7 for a few hundred less.  I place almost no value in a Retina display in this display size range, and I suspect the additional pixils that need to be processed, are the reason that compromises to the processor side were made.

                                 

                                As to the new Mac Pro ( A.K.A. the $5000.00 trash can ) this may be the most viable platform for a Mac server or Pro desktop, but it is by "no means" what I would even remotely call "innovation", (unless you consider making a "square" computer a "round" computer "innovation")... It also carries a hefty price tag, once you try to configure it to perform better than the last generation iMac... Hardly what one would have expected after the long wait for a revised Mac Pro.

                                • 13. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                                  bigtom

                                  The new retina iMAc only cones with a quad core. The base option is an i5 and there is a $250 option for a 4.0Ghz i7 with hyperthreading.

                                   

                                  According to FM in the past, when the 2013 quad core MacPro came out, for a FM server with around 10 users more than 4 cores is a bit much and more benefit will be seen from paster processor speed as long as you have good disk I/O. The example being a 12 core machine would support hundreds of FM connections, so what do you think a quad core can do. This clearly puts the retina iMac 4.0 i7 as a better FM server machine for me for the same price as a quad core MacPro.

                                   

                                  I am not sure what is wrong with apple that they do not even offer better options for the mac mini or a better quad core MacPro. Even for the same price, an iMac should not be out performing a MacPro in principle.

                                   

                                  Calling around to see if any stores have old stock on hand today. As another note the US store is full of MacPro refurbs and the foreign stores have none. This happened with the Mac mini about a month ago. Maybe there is a new Pro coming soon, but I doubt it.

                                   

                                  I looked at the idea of VMs and xGrid on one older machine to link up a few Mac minis but that is not somehting I am familiar with and not sure how FMS works int hat environment. I know some hosting companies do this regularly, but no idea how it is done.

                                  • 14. Re: New Mac mini a downgrade for FMS with dual core?
                                    wsvp

                                    Ahh... I just noticed the iMac Core i7 option.  I missed it because I did not notice the (stupid) way they separated the Retina iMac into a completely separate area.