12 Replies Latest reply on Jan 31, 2013 11:44 AM by philmodjunk

    6 page form per record help

    SAllen

      Title

      6 page form per record help

      Post

           I need to create a physical therapy assessment that is 6 pages long - Do I make a separate layout for each page? This doesnt seem to work as my "page 2" file will be different from my "page 1" file.  Can I "link the layouts together" so that all data for each layout will be for the same patient??

           If I put all "6 pages"  scrolling down then I get all kinds of errors when trying to view my progress (exit layout mode).

           I have a 30 day trial and am hoping that FM can do what we need.

           Thanks.

        • 1. Re: 6 page form per record help
          davidanders

               In Filemaker 12   Maximum Layout size: 32,000pt x 32,000pt; may be limited by currently selected printer and page setup. Objects beyond current page width do not print.

               Making a long layout for printing can be difficult - different printers sometimes have different margins.

               It is common to make a layout for data entry and others for printing.

               Every layout will show the data for the currently viewed record.

               There is a free database that has nicely formatted reports for examples  

          By yzysoft.com  Contacts | Products | Invoices | Letters
               Sample Database -     http://yzysoft.com/printouts/yzysoft_SampleDatabase.html

               My list of FMP info and resources is here.   http://forums.filemaker.com/posts/f6ed4be796?commentId=222931#222931

          • 2. Re: 6 page form per record help
            philmodjunk

                 It should be possible to have a 6 page assessment report printed out from a single layout. But it sounds like you are trying to do this all from fields specified in a single table. If so, the sheer size of your report suggests that a major redesign of your database tables may be in order to make this easier to work with. For a gvien PT client, you can set up a related table of any number of records, so there's a very good chance that you can set up a list of related records for your assessment that greatly simplifies this entire process.

                 That said:

                 

                      This doesnt seem to work as my "page 2" file will be different from my "page 1" file.

                 Don't see why that would be the case. You can create as many layouts as you wish all based on the same table. There would be no "files" involved in this.

                 

                      Can I "link the layouts together" so that all data for each layout will be for the same patient??

                 To repeat what I just said. The layouts can all refer to the same table of data.

                 

                      If I put all "6 pages"  scrolling down then I get all kinds of errors when trying to view my progress (exit layout mode).

                 "all kinds of errors" doesn't give me enough to go on. But multiple page layouts in FileMaker are pretty common so this should not be the case.

                 But please take a careful look at redesigning your table to split the data off into related tables.

            • 3. Re: 6 page form per record help
              SAllen

                   Ok - thanks so much - how do I link all of my pages to the same patient - what I originally did was created 1 layout for each page of the patient evaluation.  I even created buttons to take me to the next layout when in browse. BUT, i noticed that my first file in layout 1 (page 1) does NOT necessairly "link" to the next layout (page 2) - in other words my layout 2 needs to somehow "string" behind the layout 1 as it is the same patient - and the same for the following 4 pages after that one.

                   How do I refer the subsequent layouts to the 1st layout (page 1 of the eval)?

                   I appologize for the ignorance here.  I really did try the Lynda.com videos before asking for help...

              • 4. Re: 6 page form per record help
                philmodjunk

                     "File" refers to the entire database file in which you have defined your tables, layouts, etc.

                     So this sentence does not make sense:

                     

                          BUT, i noticed that my first file in layout 1 (page 1) does NOT necessairly "link" to the next layout (page 2)

                     I think that you really mean "Record" not file. If layout 1 and layout 2 are based on the same table occurrence, (They have exactly the same name in "show records from" in layout setup...) then the current record on layout 1 will also be the current record on layout 2.

                     But I suspect that you have created two layouts that are each based on different tables. This may or may not be a good idea, but you can define relationships in Manage | Database | Relationships that link a record in one table to a record or group of records in another. And such a relationship can be used so that clicking a button on layout 1 brings up the related record or records on layout 2.

                     What you describe sounds like a basic questionaire type series of questions to ask each patient. I recommend taking a look at this thread on Surveys to see how you might set it up: Need aid on generating a report from a survey layout.

                • 5. Re: 6 page form per record help
                  SAllen

                       Yes, your correct "record - not file.

                       Ok - so I was able to "link" the different layouts by making the layout name the same - thanks.

                       If I continue this (for the 6 pages) will I be able to:

                         
                  1.           run a report that will give me a number of "fails" PER Client Company? - this is for pre-employment testing and we send annual ROI reports based on the folks that failed the test.  I need to capture a few specific fields from the 6 pages to have on the ROI report and we associate average costs to potiential injuries - we give a estimated disability duration, direct costs and indirect costs associated with the potiential injury.  We have 150 different client companies and do thousands of tests each year.  For each client company we list every person that failed (no names) - list: 1. Job Title, 2. Date Tested, 3. Gender 4, Age, 5. Weight, 6. Reason for Failure - all "pulled from 6 page assessment - then we also give "injury Risk Rating", "Estimated Duration of Disability" & Estimated Cost Savings (direct and indirect). The last 3 bits of info are NOT from our assessments but are from other documented data.  On page 1 we put the total medical treatment without surgery estimated $$ AND the Medical treatment with surgery $$ - calculated from all of the estimated failed records... 
                  2.      
                  3.            
                  4.      
                  5.           AND a second report that will give me a "list" (maybe a table will do) of every person tested for each client company - we also pull several fields for each person tested (from the 6 pages) and place them on the report.
                  6.      
                  7.           Lastly, and probably most easily; how do I get the "checkbox set" to work??

                       I appologize for rambling on - I hope some of this makes sense.

                       Thanks again for all of your assistance.

                  • 6. Re: 6 page form per record help
                    philmodjunk

                         Before you can tackle any of that. You need a data model--a set of tables and relationships, that works for what you need. I recommend taking a look at this thread on Surveys to see how you might set it up: Need aid on generating a report from a survey layout.

                         

                              how do I get the "checkbox set" to work??

                         In what way is it "not working"?

                    • 7. Re: 6 page form per record help
                      SAllen

                           I tried to follow your suggested thread on my phone when away from my office yesturday but found it difficult to follow...  I will take a better look at it in a few moments - I do see some similarities, but am having a difficult time matching them.  I do think the use of a portal will be somehow used...?

                           Checkbox Set: When I select this I get a check box but next to it is: "value list missing" - when i try to add a value list i get "no values defined" - I am also NOT able to select the check box...??  I just want to be able to put a check mark in the box if the therapist wants one...

                      • 8. Re: 6 page form per record help
                        philmodjunk
                             

                                  I do think the use of a portal will be somehow used.?

                             Portals are extremely useful in FileMaker. I can't think of the last time I created a database except for small "trial" Dbs that did not use a portal somewhere, but it is impossible to tell if or how you would use a portal from what little you have said so far about your project.

                             

                                  Checkbox Set:

                             Any checkbox, radio button, drop down list or pop up menu format requires a value list to supply the list of values used with each of these formats. You can create a value list by selecting Manage | Value List or, when selecting your check box format, there's a "pencil" icon in the Inspector you can click to start creating a new value list to use with that field.

                             But both of these are extremely trivial issues that come a very distant second to the need to have the right tables and relationships set up in your database. I do suggest you carefully read that thread and even do additional searches on surveys and FileMaker to gain an understanding on how this should work.

                             Your posts also reveal that this is all very new to you and the lack of understanding you have at this point is handicapping your ability to figure out how to set up your database--which is a fairly ambitious project for someone new to FileMaker and relational database design. I recommend that you invest some time and possibly some $$ in acquiring some training and/or instruction in FileMaker before moving forward with your project.

                             We'll be glad to help out here in this Forum, but the format of an online forum makes it a resource best suited to answering specific questions where books, videos, tutorials are better suited for helping you acquire a more broad based understanding of database design in general and how to develop a database in FileMaker in particular.

                        • 9. Re: 6 page form per record help
                          SAllen

                               After reviewing some of the training videos it sounds like i need tables for:

                               Testing Facilities -------->Client Companies ----------->Employee's ------------>Test -------------------->Test Items  OR should it be

                               Testing Facilities -------->Client Companies ----------->Employee's ------------>Test Items <----------- Test

                               We have 150 testing facilities - a testing facility will have different client companies that they will perform testing.  Client Companies will send employee's for a preemployment test. Each test will be based on the specific job description for that specific client company.

                               Each test is different with approximately 50 different testing items.  

                               Although every test is based on a specific job description for each client company - I chose to combine the "test table" and "job description" table as a mechanic at one client company may have different test items than a different client companies mechanic.  Basically each test is company specific for each job title.

                               What worries me with the above tables is that "test items" could have 50+ different data points.

                               At one point i thought that maybe the relationships should look like:

                               Testing facility -------->Client Companies ------>Job Descriptions --------->Test -------->Test Items

                               Each Testing Facility will have Many Client Companies. Each Client Company will have Many Jobdescriptions/Tests. Each Test will have Many Test Items.

                               Does any of the above make sense?  I will need to make various reports off of the data collected above - one being the 6 page report (that is currently in paper form) and the other 2 being what we spoke about earlier.

                                

                                

                          • 10. Re: 6 page form per record help
                            philmodjunk

                                 What you are wrestling with here is called "data modeling". It's the most critical part of your database design process and often the most challenging part of your project. But don't panic. If you discover part way through the design of your database that a different arrangement of tables and relaitonships is needed, you can go back and make those changes and this is often necessary.

                                 

                                      We have 150 testing facilities - a testing facility will have different client companies that they will perform testing.  Client Companies will send employee's for a preemployment test. Each test will be based on the specific job description for that specific client company.

                                 Might it be possible that a given client company might work with more than one testing facility? Perhaps over time due to one facility closing or a new one opening? If so, you have a many to many relationship and this will require a different setup than either of the two options you have posted.

                                 When it comes to employee testing, you need one more table:

                                 Employee's ------------<Test Responses>-----Test Items >----------- Test     (---< means "one to many" )

                                 Test Items will be the questions or assessment tests that each link to a given test. Test Responses are the actual employee responses (or test results) for that test item. In most cases, it will probably be one response record for each test item, but this is not strictly necessary.

                                 

                                      What worries me with the above tables is that "test items" could have 50+ different data points.

                                 I don't see why that's a problem. Just keep in mind that each "data point" should be stored in a different record in Test Responses. Such tables in FileMaker can literally store millions of records so 50+ is a pretty trivial number of data points from that perspective.

                                 

                                      At one point i thought that maybe the relationships should look like:

                                 

                                      Testing facility -------->Client Companies ------>Job Descriptions --------->Test -------->Test Items

                                 This sounds like a good idea and there is no reason why you can't have both this set of relationships for linking tests to specific job descriptions and a different set of relationships for managing employee responses/results for a given set of Test Items.

                                 Some further reading that may help:

                            Tutorial: What are Table Occurrences?

                            Anchor Buoy

                            • 11. Re: 6 page form per record help
                              SAllen

                                    

                                   

                                        We have 150 testing facilities - a testing facility will have different client companies that they will perform testing.  Client Companies will send employee's for a preemployment test. Each test will be based on the specific job description for that specific client company.

                                   Might it be possible that a given client company might work with more than one testing facility? Yes, several of our client companies use multiple Testing Facilities - as the prospective employee may live in a different part of the country. 

                                   If so, you have a many to many relationship and this will require a different setup than either of the two options you have posted.

                                    

                              When it comes to employee testing, you need one more table:  Would Testing Facility go here also? Would Client Company go here? Would I still need a "Client Company" table?

                              Testing Facility ---->Client Company ------>Employee's ------------<Test Responses>-----Test Items >----------- Test     (---< means "one to many" ) Oh, the Testing Facility<--->Client Company is the many to many you were referring to... So what do I do with the Testing Facilities table? Do I not need one? - I would like each testing facility to ONLY "SEE" their specific Client Companies. Not all Testing Facilities will test for ALL client companies. I'd like to "turn on" the appropriate client companies for each specific Testing Facility.

                                   Test Items will be the questions or assessment tests that each link to a given test. Test Responses are the actual employee responses (or test results) for that test item. In most cases, it will probably be one response record for each test item, but this is not strictly necessary.

                              I'm not understanding the Test Responses table VS. Test Items - if i create different fields for the Test Items table - won't the data in each of the fields be the Test Responses?? What would the Test Response fields be (if not the same as the Test Items table fields?

                                    

                                   

                                        At one point i thought that maybe the relationships should look like:

                                   

                                        Testing facility -------->Client Companies ------>Job Descriptions --------->Test -------->Test Items

                                   This sounds like a good idea and there is no reason why you can't have both this set of relationships for linking tests to specific job descriptions and a different set of relationships for managing employee responses/results for a given set of Test Items.

                                   Will I still have a many to many relationship with Testing Facility AND Client Companies??? 

                                   Would you suggest the following relationships:

                                   Testing Facilities--->Client Company--->Job Descriptions--->Test--->Test Items--->Test Responses

                                   Will review the readings as suggested this evening.

                                   Thanks.

                              • 12. Re: 6 page form per record help
                                philmodjunk

                                     First, many to many relationships are almost always managed by putting a third, join table, between the two tables that require this relationship:

                                     ClientCompanies-----<Company_Facility>--------TestingFacilities

                                     ClientCompanies::__pkCompanyID = Company_Facility::_fkCompanyID
                                     TestingFacilities::__pkTestingFacilityID = Company_Facility::_fkTestingFacilityID

                                     With this setup, a portal to Company_Facility can be placed on a ClientCompanies layout to list and link to all facilities used by that company.

                                     In similar fashion a portal to Company_Facility can be placed on a TestingFacilities layout to list and link to all Companies that use that facility.

                                     Here's a demo file that links "events" to "contacts" in a many to many relationship:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyir7cs0yxmbn6i/ManyToManywDemoWExtras.fp7

                                I'm not understanding the Test Responses table VS. Test Items

                                     Let's pretend that you need to assess the skills of an employee who will work as a clown:

                                     So you ask these questions:

                                     Graduate from clown school?

                                     Have Costume?

                                     Have very small car?

                                     The questions asked would be individual records in Test Items, linked to a single Test Record (the clown test). These questions will be asked of any employee sent to take this particular test. (This same set up also works if you are recording the results of health test such as a drug use screening.)

                                     The employees responses (No ; yes, yes), would be indivdiual records in the Test Responses table. Each response record links to a given Test Item record so that you can match up the responses to the questions and in turn to the specific test for which they were taken.